Low ride-height with 28mm sway bar.

[Grant]

Louis,

Where do I buy those bump stops? I can't find a place to order them on the koni site or how much they cost.

[Potenziato]

First I never tried these so I don't know if they will work. I remember seeing them in old Porsche catalogs. You would remove the dust cover and place inside and hopefully reattach the cover. The length may or may not be right either. You may have to do some shortening depending on your height.

http://www.performanceproducts.com/p...&vehicle=22557

[junglejustice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant ...lowering my car brought the lower control arms up significantly, which brought the sway bar mounts on the control arm up higher and inwards)? I'm worried that the combination of akwardly angled LCA's and a stiff sway bar angled upwards as they attach to the LCA will cause some binding on the sway bar end links. Any thoughts on this?

[Grant]

JJ,

Do Ron's end links adjust to be shorter than the OEM length? JimK is using 105 series end links because they are significantly shorter than stock, but I don't know if I'm going to be able to find any. I'm just trying my best to keep the sway bar parallel to the ground as my LCA's point skyward.

The page Potenziato sent me is for a 911 of some sort. Should I be wary before buying them?
http://www.performanceproducts.com/p...&vehicle=22557

[junglejustice]

Guys, one should not put SO much thought in to those LCAs running perfectly parallel to the ground. EVERY SINGLE ONE of Ron's cars at the Ring are lowered and run with the LCAs pointed upward - just like on my Verde with his full kit!!!

Here, the roll-center of the car also comes in to play! It is interesting to note that while in SA with Ron last month, he was reading a book by one GURU of handling dynamics - Colin Chapman - it was CLEARLY pointing out that in some cases the absolute perpendicular position of the lower-control arm to the ground may in fact not necessarily = the most optimal position, height and setup of that particular car - clearly the case with these TA cars...

I have driven about 5-6-7 different ones of Ron's cars at the Ring, at Spa, as well as a couple of my own setups here in the States - just the same way - and I can promise you that it works just fine!!! Ditto for the anti-roll bar positioning! What IS important on the anti-roll bar is that it does not have ANY tension on it at full rest with the wheels on the ground! This is where the combination of Ron's bar with his adjustable rod-end links comes in...

I would just spend the Euro 199 on Ron's bar (including the adjustable rod-end links) and install them as stipulated...

[junglejustice]

It's easier if you have access to an alignment rack (not lifts) but you can also do this on the ground:

...you install the bar leaving just one end of one of the reaction arms disconnected with the rod just dangling there... Now, with the wheels and the suspension fully-loaded, you start adjusting that one rod-end - slipping it on and off of the little pin on the lower control-arm until it slips on and off freely, with NO tension on the bar.

Lock all of the nuts and you're done!

[AR4me]

I don't mean to argue over words but am simply curious and looking for clarification.

This whole issue of "no pre-load on the sway-bar" does not make that much sense to me, particular given the explanation given above:
As you know, the sway-bar can rotate in the front sway-bar mounts. Hence, the length you end up adjusting the end-links to, acoording to your procedure above, is totally arbitrary, and will depend on whatever rotational angle you happened to get the sway-bar at when you tried to get the f&%#$%# bolts on the front sway-bar brackets with the 30 mm sway-bar.

Now, if you say, "adjust the end-links to get the arms of the sway-bar (that connects to the end-links) horisontal under static load" then it would make some sense. As I see it, the sway-bar is always unloaded with the car resting on the ground, regardless of adjustment of the end-links (as long as they are about equal length). In my understanding the sway-bar is primarily loaded during cornering. Of course, you need the endlinks to be of (hopefully) equal length. But, that is so obvious, that I can't imagine that is what you are trying to say.

I'll be happy to stand corrected, but having installed the RSR front sway-bar and stock sway-bars, I just don't see it.

What exact geometrical property are you trying to achieve with the prescribed method? Is it simply to get the relative length of the left and right endlink correct? With the prescribed method, the absolute lenght is still somewhat arbitrary, no?

Jes

[Grant]

Hey JJ,

Are i'm still curious, can the adjustable end links be made to be shorter than stock? I want to order RS bars very soon and I want to know if I should be getting the end links as well (mainly to keep the sway bar parallel to the ground).

And about the LCA being parallel...while RS cars must handle amazingly based on the numerous testimonials I've heard, Alfa engineers can't be discounted either. I'm SURE the RS cars handle extremely well on smooth surfaces, but I'm also worried about improper camber/toe changes when on not-so-smooth surfaces due to the LCA's being out of their deisgned usage range. My car is a daily driver too.

PS

In the pictures you provided, it looks like the end links are shorter than stock...

[AR4me]

Grant,
Since I have both readily available I put a measuring tape to both. Approximate measurements indicate that the stock end-links on a 24 mm front sway bar are 4" center to center of mounting points. The end-links on the 30 mm RSR sway bar appear to have a shortest length of approximately 3.75" - so not a whole lot to gain there. Though, read my disclaimer
Jes

[junglejustice]

I guess the point is for them to be equal...

I will show you on Friday maybe (plenty of time to drink beer and argue over this ), but in essence, with the car up in the air and an unequal setting, you would have to pull down on the one LCA and push up on the other to get that last rod-end on...

Also, with a lowered car and stock bar-links you end up pushing the reward arms of the bar up in to the body of the car - not so with the adjustable rod-ends...

[Grant]

Jes,

I really appreciate you taking those measurements. I suppose the rod ends will allow for some mis-alignment and keep the binding monster at bay..I hope.

Since you've obviously been underneath your platinum a lot, how strong do the rear sway bar mounts look? Do you think having an RS adjustable rear sway bar will rip the mounts out of the chassis/dedion?

[AR4me]

I think that depends on the size of the rear sway-bar you are putting on. On the front it is a very significant difference. I'm not sure what you are planning for the rear. I can't imagine it being a huge stiffening, though I suppose it depends on where you are coming from.

My current setup on Roxanne with RSR 30 mm front sway-bar, stock 2.5 torsion bars, RSR 125 kgs front and 70 kgs rear springs + 4 shocks, and stock rear sway-bar produce a very neutral car with a slight tendency to oversteer (very nice balance).
Jes