Clutch Master/Slave Cylinder Maintainence/Repair

CrshTstDmy87 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006, 07:43 PM

Hi,
I'm a proud owner of a Milano Gold Ed. that needs some serious repair!

I am working on bleeding my clutch slave and possibly repairing or replacing my clutch master. This is the first time I have done this on an Alpha and there are no local mechanics who specialize in these cars. I browsed this forum and I am amazed at all the information! I've seen several threads with a similar problem but none of them have enough detail to help me get started...

I guess I'll start off by explaining the problem. The clutch pedal is completely soft and goes straight to the floor without any action. The clutch doesn't get stuck hard on the floor and I can pull it back up easily but there is some kind of suction that keeps it from coming up on its own.
- From reading all the threads and suggestions similar to this I think that the problem is either air in the hose or a bad master(piston seal, etc.)

Could this be the problem, or is it something else?

I have a nice list of notes for the bleeding process but . . . I can't figure out where the slave is on this car!

I thought it would be easy because I know what the slave looks like but I jacked up the milano, squeezed underneath(I'm not a small guy) and couldn't find it!!!

Does anyone have any pictures or diagrams of the milano underbody with the location of the clutch slave cylinder?

At this point, I feel like I can remove the clutch MC easier than I can bleed the clutch!!!

Giorgio68 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006, 08:25 PM

Hi, when you jack up the car, look at the back of the transmission there is a bleeder and on the side (right) of the transmission (when looking from the back of the car) the slave has a plastic rubber cover, unscrew the bleeder slowly and you will see bubbly air coming you don't need to pump the clutch pedal or anything, try this first see what happens.

Giorgio
_________________________
75 Giulia Nuova Super 1300
71 Euro Berlina 2000
85 GTV6
87 Milano Platinum
03 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
06 VW GTI 2.0T (super fast)

**AR4me** · #3 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006, 08:27 PM

Clutch slave is on passenger side of transaxle. So, Look at the area inside of the right rear wheel, slightly forward - general area where the exhaust runs towards and up over the right half-shaft, same general area as fuel filter... You can't miss it

Seriously, you'll find it.
Jes

slyalfa · #4 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 01:22 AM

BTW the clutch and transaxle is in the back of the car. not up near the motor
also check the pivot. the fork pivot is a pull pivot and they break
also the slave can spin so when you bleed it, spin the slave so the bleeder is on the top.

slyalfa · #5 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 01:28 AM

BTW look here for docs
http://www.users.on.net/~craigf/

beardse · #6 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 02:37 AM

i had the exact same problem as you.
you will find it is your clutch slave cylinder.mine was exactly the same.
though i had the mechanic fix the thing,as you need a hoist,to work on it better.
if i was you i would change the master clutch cylinder as well,mine was ok,but was on it's way,so i had this changed also.
bit of a **** to change though,as it sits behind the inlet manifold on a twin spark,against the fire wall.
good luck with.

eddiealfanut · #7 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 03:14 AM

I have a new slave cylinder and braided steel hose that I am waiting to put in. My spannering skills are 'reasonable', but winter is fast approaching in Ireland and I'm trying to convince myself to get off my a**e and do it

Question is, is this a straightforward job? Unbolt/bolt/bleed (with pressure bleeder and bleed-valve rotated to top)? Do I risk knocking out the fork or doing something else horrible if I'm not really careful.
I imagine it's irrelevant in this context, but mine's a TS.

Many thanks, and sorry if this is hijacking the thread,

Ed.

**kredden** · #8 (**permalink**) 09-13-2006, 07:00 AM

It is quite straightforward to do. When recently replacing mine I found that Centerline was selling them a lot cheaper (about 50% less) than anyone else, turns out this is because you can use the Spider slave and just reuse the rod from your original! Works like a charm.

Kevin

CrshTstDmy87 · #9 (**permalink**) 09-14-2006, 06:03 PM

Haha thanks for the speedy replies!

I was staring at these diagrams and sketches like they were Picasso paintings.

Turns out I had it all reversed in my head, I'm such an idiot.

I found it so fast that now I feel dumb for not figuring it out.

Now then...(forgive me for my mechanical incompetence)

I found the slave but I still don't know about the bleeder screw. The end of the slave has the hose coming in and a little cap.
- Is the cap on the slave supposed to come off and is the bleeder screw underneath it? I assume the bleeder screw is actually where the fluid bleeds from.
- Is the slave supposed to rotate? I read that the bleeder screw needs to be in the 12'oclock position and I assume this is because the air would be trapped in the top of the slave. I tried rotating the slave but it won't budge! Any advice or tips?

Sorry if I'm being too cautious but I'm trying to avoid getting brake fluid in my face.

**Alfisto Steve** · #10 (**permalink**) 09-14-2006, 07:48 PM

Rubber cap is dust cap on bleeder. Also pretty common for slave to be frozen/corroded in place inside bracket so won't rotate. If bleeder on bottom and hose on top it will be hard to get air out if any trapped.

CrshTstDmy87 · #11 (**permalink**) 09-14-2006, 10:15 PM

Thanks Steve, that's what I thought...

The slave is definitely frozen solid in the bracket at the moment.
Any suggestions on how to loosen the clutch slave without throwing the pushrod and fork out of alignment?
I'll try some different penetrating oils(maybe a healthy dose of WD40

) overnight and see what happens.

**conedriver** · #12 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 05:34 AM

Ahh... Good Milano stuff. We put many miles on two examples before bailing due to repeated cam belt tensioner failures.

Try some penetrating oil. And, the slave cylinder should have two "Flats" on one end. A large wrench will fit over this area, and the cylinder can be rotated as more oil is applied. If all else fails, the slave cylinder mounting bracket can be unbolted and the entire assembly can be placed in a vise for more vigorous action (after unscrewing the hydraulic hose).

The throughout bearing has the same sort of flat areas, and the fork must be properly aligned to these for insertion. None of this is really hard, but you should be sure to properly support the car before crawling around underneath.

And... if (when) the clutch arm pivot bolt breaks, it can actually be removed through the access hole in the bell housing. It should also have two flats, allowing a small visegrip wrench to grip and remove the part screwed into the Aluminum casting. the loose part can be retrieved by using a small magnet on the end of a flexible wand. If you need to install a new pivot bolt, take the time to file a "Hex" near the threads, and it can then be tightened with a small open end wrench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrshTstDmy87

Thanks Steve, that's what I thought...

The slave is definitely frozen solid in the bracket at the moment.
Any suggestions on how to loosen the clutch slave without throwing the pushrod and fork out of alignment?
I'll try some different penetrating oils(maybe a healthy dose of WD40

) overnight and see what happens.

Murray · #13 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 05:43 AM

Quote:

I imagine it's irrelevant in this context, but mine's a TS.

CrshTstDmy87 · #14 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 08:29 PM

The clutch pedal is still dead in the first inch or two of travel but after that it works fine. Bleeding the clutch restored pressure to the pedal, at least for now.

Of course only time will tell if there is a leak in a hose or a bad seal in the MC. I'll drive it around cautiously for now and post back later once I'm sure.

As for the clutch pedal...
The clutch pedal engages and disengages lower to the floor than I remember. Does anyone know what could be causing this???

The bleed process itself took less than 15 minutes.

Everything up to that was trying to figure out exactly what to do so I wouldn't destroy anything.

Who decided that a rotating slave was a good idea?

After I drenched the bracket that held the slave in place I tapped it a bit, repeated again and let it sit overnight. I took me a while to find the right sized wrenches to turn the slave but I eventually nudged into a 12'oclock position after some grunting.

Thanks to all of you who helped! All these tidbits of info are lifesaving for a newbie mechanic like myself. Again, I will post after a few days if the clutch pressure is holding.

**conedriver** · #15 (**permalink**) 09-16-2006, 04:47 AM

Going from memory here... I know this is not supposed to be, but the clutches on both of our Milanos were "self bleeding" to some degree. Drive the car some, and see if the clutch engage / disengage point actually moves outward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrshTstDmy87

The clutch pedal is still dead in the first inch or two of travel but after that it works fine. Bleeding the clutch restored pressure to the pedal, at least for now.

Of course only time will tell if there is a leak in a hose or a bad seal in the MC. I'll drive it around cautiously for now and post back later once I'm sure.

As for the clutch pedal...
The clutch pedal engages and disengages lower to the floor than I remember. Does anyone know what could be causing this???

The bleed process itself took less than 15 minutes.

Everything up to that was trying to figure out exactly what to do so I wouldn't destroy anything.

Who decided that a rotating slave was a good idea?

After I drenched the bracket that held the slave in place I tapped it a bit, repeated again and let it sit overnight. I took me a while to find the right sized wrenches to turn the slave but I eventually nudged into a 12'oclock position after some grunting.

Thanks to all of you who helped! All these tidbits of info are lifesaving for a newbie mechanic like myself. Again, I will post after a few days if the clutch pressure is holding.