Roxanne - budget milano/75 track car - Page 51

AR4me · #**751** (**permalink**) 02-24-2007, 03:52 PM

After completing the modification I went on to mount it on the (yet again) disassembled front of the 164 engine. One final modification I found necessary is to pull the timing indicator pin out of the Milano lower engine cover - it interfers with the crank angle gear on the 164 pulley assembly. New gasket under the cover, the crank pulley assembly back on, re-install and tension T-belt + tensioner...

Pics:
1. Milano cover on 164 engine
2. Crank pulley assembly back on
3. Tensioner + T-belt back on.

When all this out of the way I started looking at mounting the Milano sump. For test fitting I pulled the old Milano sump gasket and aligned it with the 164 block. I put a coupld of threads of each bolt in to test the fit. It looks like I only need to drill two completely new holes in the 164 block and then drill out the threads in holes on the front half of the 164 block - the Milano sump has threads that take a bolt from the top.

Pics:
4. Test fit of old Milano sump gasket
5. Pointing out the 2 new holes that are required.

Jes

AR4me · #**752** (**permalink**) 02-24-2007, 10:44 PM

The drama continues... The decision to run the 164s oil pump as is, requires modifications to the housing as well as the Milano oil sump in order for the sump to go on - a bit of grinding on both. I'll post some pics when I'm all done with it.

In the middle of messing with the oil pump, the sump, drilling the block, etc, I took a few minutes to paint the engine bay - came out ok, I think...

Jes

AR4me · #**753** (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 09:50 PM

I spent this morning modifying, test-fitting the Milano sump on the 164S engine, as well as modifying the 164S block to allow bolts on all holes on the Milano sump, and grind the 164S oil pump housing. It took some 100 iterations to get it just right...

First some pics of the Milano sump. In retrospect I suspect that the slight modification shown in pics 1 and 2 may not be necessary. The modification in pics 3, 4, and 5 is key along with grinding of the 164S oil pump. As you can see in pic 5 the area of the sump pressing the gasket to the block is left intact. This was possibly by grinding at an angle and combine it with grinding of the 164S oil pump housing (I could have used the Milano oil pump, but this was the route I had decided on).

Jes

AR4me · #**754** (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 10:01 PM

A few pics showing the grinding of the housing on eth 164S oil pump and how tight the clearance is to the Milano sump...

Jes

AR4me · #**755** (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 10:02 PM

And finally some pics of the final test fit of the Milano sump on the 164S block. The last pic shows bolts through the two additional holes I had to drill in the 164S block for the Milano sump.

BTW, in case you wonder: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I pulled the T-belt, tensioner, crank pulley, and front cover plate yet again for better access. At this point it takes me about 5 min to take all that off, and another 15 min to put it back on including setting up the tensioner - not sure if that is good or bad

Although, I don't have a pic of it at this point, it is all back on

Until next time

Jes

AR4me · #**756** (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 10:16 PM

My goal was really to have the sump back on, the engine all buttoned up, ready for testing fitting in the engine bay during this week for "fine" tuning of the firewall. However, one issue made me reconsider: The cig/pipe seals

This is essentially what I posted in the 164 section regarding the cig seals:

1. "replace" them or leave them?
2. How to do them if they should be done?
3. Cig seals or sealant?

To assist you in providing some guidance I have taken a few pics of the sump + gasket in the area of the cig seals as it came apart, as well as a pic of the current cig seals in the block/rear main bearing cap. As a final piece of information: I do not believe they were leaking prior to pulling the engine.

I really want to "replace" them as I want a leak free engine (long-term) and have access now. However, for that to make sense I need a fool proof recipe. Can you guys help? Alternatively, I was thinking of applying some sealant around the crevesses, put the new sump gasket and sump on, fill engine oil on, leave it tilted backwards, so that the oil is above the inside of the rear main bearing cap. If it seeps out, well, the cig seals need to be done. If it doesn't, then perhaps it is worth the chance...???

Any advice?

Jes

**kredden** · #**757** (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 06:34 AM

Is that just some sealant on top of the cig seals? I haven't seen orange ones before. The 164 engine I put in my Verde didn't have the cig seals in it, it was just filled with orange sealant of some sort, which it appears yours might be to?

Kevin

AR4me · #**758** (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 07:32 AM

Not quite sure. Initially, I thought it was sealent like you mention, but I also seem to see the contour of the center hole of the cigarette seals (through the orange sealant. Perhaps someone just added a tad of sealent at the buttom of the cigarette seals to make sure they seal against the upper sump gasket.

Given Steve's feedback on the 164 section I think I'll do a leak test first. Any other thoughts?

Jes

slyalfa · #**759** (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 08:01 AM

I reused mine. but after, I found out the new thing is to just fill it with locktight #so and so.

AR4me · #**760** (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 09:52 PM

So, I spoke with Andrew Garcia this afternoon and based on that decided to pull the cigarette seals. I believe mine were done with sealant - orange in color. It was a 2 min job, literally, to pull them out - just a bolt into them and they pulled right out. The sides are somewhat blackened, indicating oil starting to make its way around, I suppose. Find below some pics.

Jes

AR4me · #**761** (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 09:56 PM

I cleaned up the cavities, maybe another 10 min, and in preparation compared the new cigarette seals to the old ones. Houston, we have a... The new seals are shorter by about 1/8" as shown on the last pic. This is not good as the oil sump is supposed to compress the cigarette seals. The old ones were about flushed with the block. This means the new ones will sit 1/8" into the block. It seems my only option will be to insert them and then add a sealant (something like Ultra Grey Permatex) to get the compression. I will also make sure to get a sealant into the crevesses.

Any thoughts?

Jes

Echo Leader · #**762** (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 03:32 AM

Do the new seals perhaps have a greater diameter? Thus the additional length will occur naturally when they are compressed from all sides?

Though this would mean the original ones are maintaining that shape after they've been removed...

I suppose that could happen depending on the material.

**kredden** · #**763** (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 04:14 AM

Yeah, supposed to sit proud by a bit, something like a paper clips thickness or so if I remember correctly. Did you try fitting one of them to see if it really does sit in that far?

Kevin

AR4me · #**764** (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 07:27 AM

No, I didn't test fit one yet. I was planning to pick up some appropriate tubing (of 10 mm ID) as substitute for the factory tool to insert the seals. You guys and the ones on the 164 section may be correct that as it is compressed (from the sides) going in it expands in length.

Jes