Roxanne - budget milano/75 track car - Page 46

**AR4me** · #**676** (**permalink**) 02-11-2007, 10:29 AM

Just learned from Steve: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/37068-look-12v-cam-timing.html that my "later" style 164 engine does not use O-rings since the cam pulley design is a two piece instead of 3 piece design.

Now back to trying to get the left side cam pulley off...

Jes

**AR4me** · #**677** (**permalink**) 02-11-2007, 12:12 PM

YES! Finally got the left crank pulley off. With the puller on there I tapped 3 screw drivers inbetween the 2 pieces of the pulley - had a 2 mm gap, large enough for a screw driver to go in - BANG... Put in the new oil seals...

Front and rear crank seals as well as pipe/cig seals are next on the agenda...

Jes

**AR4me** · #**678** (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 12:41 AM

Tonight Colin and I addressed more oil seals. Basically we wanted to take out the front and rear crank seals as well as expose the oil pump pulley oil seal. We did not want to take the oil pump pulley oil seal out until we have the replacement seal in our hands. Though, it looks the same size as the cam pulley seals we already did.

Anyway, a few tricks. Instead of using or fabbing a factory like tool to hold the oil pump pulley to release the 13 mm bolt that holds it on, Colin had the bright idea of simply holding it with an oil filter wrench. Luckily, I had one that just slid on there - worked like a charm

Pic 1 shows the exposed oil seal for the oil pump pulley.

Next we went on take the front crank seal out. That requires the crank pulley and the pulley for the T-belt and the big washer in the back that guides the T-belt to be removed. We had to use an impact wrench to get the 41 mm crank pulley nut off (after undoing the "tap" of the edge of the nut). We had tried with a braker bar, holding the crank steady with a long bar on the other end of the crank using the flywheel bolts. Though, we couldn't get enough leverage on it. My Craftsman impact couldn't undo it either, but Colin's did the trick. The crank pulley with the crank angle gear came right off, but the pulley for the T-belt and the washer had to be pried off - couldn't get a puller on it. Pic 2 shows the front crank seal exposed, with a close-up in Pic 3. The seal had to be worked out. When doing the rear crank seal Colin had another bright idea: drill the seal with a small drill - think we used 7/64, insert a funky plier through the whole and work the seal out. Pic 4 shows the front crank with the seal removed, and pic 5 shows the current state of the front of the engine.

Jes

**AR4me** · #**679** (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 12:47 AM

Next we went on to remove the rear crank seal. Straight forward using the technique outlined about: drill the seal with a small drill, insert a special plier and pry it out. A couple of pics with the rear crank seal removed.

I was going to tap the new front and rear crank seals in, but Colin suggested to check the experts here if Mobil1 Synthetic grease will do as lubricant for the seal, or if we should use vaseline. The factory manual specifies some sort of grease for the rubber, and then engine oil for the housing.

Jes

**AR4me** · #**680** (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 11:18 PM

Got a few things knocked out tonight:
Pic 1: Inserted rear crank seal.
Pic 2 & 3: Inserted front crank seal.
Pic 4: Crank pulley for T-belt had nasty chunk lodged in groove.
Pic 5: Crank pulley mounted.

Jes

**AR4me** · #**681** (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 11:26 PM

I proceeded to take out the old oil seal for the oil pump pulley. Centerline didn't have an oil seal listed, but when I mentioned that it looks identical to the cam oil seals, Bob suggested to simply read the specs off the old seal and compare - sure enough 32x47x10. I also had this confirmed by other sources. Anyway, it was then safe to pull the old seal out as I have a 32x47x10 coming. Pic 1 shows the old oil seal for the oil pump pulley pulled out. Pic 2 shows the remounted cam pulleys.

Today I also ordered oil seal and O-ring for the distributor. The O-ring was hard to find, but Alfa Parts had it in stock.

After finishing it up I was looking at the mounting of the Milano oil pan on the 164S block. I'm starting to fear that I should have used the Milano lower front engine cover, or rather, it may have been a better option than leaving the 164S lower front engine cover. We shall see, time will tell...

Jes

DaveH · #**682** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 07:23 AM

This is my soap opera Jes. Mandatory reading every morning with coffee. Thanks for posting.

Dave

Echo Leader · #**683** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveH

This is my soap opera Jes. Mandatory reading every morning with coffee. Thanks for posting.

Dave

**AR4me** · #**684** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 09:37 PM

Thanks guys. Not much going on tonight as I'm waiting for seals, O-rings, etc. Want to finish up all the seals, get the new T-belt and tension on before I start the sump and oil pick-up conversion. Other than that there is the conversion of the plenum left. I really want to move the "inlet" from pointing towards the firewall to pointing to the side (of the passenger fender) of forward. I get a pic - hang on...

I suppose I could start grinding off paint in the engine compartment in preparation for seam welding. I expect to weld every other 3-4 cm as suggested once upon a time on gtv6.com. But, probably only at the seams in the vicinity of the "towers" or places where reinforcement seems advantageous.

Jes

**AR4me** · #**685** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 10:35 PM

Ok, here are some pics regarding the 164 Plenum. As you can see from Pics 1 and 2, the current inlet points at the firewall. Some people (Larry Jr in particular) have used a 180 degree bend and have the throttle body disjoint from the plenum. Ideally, I would like to cut off the throttle body and re-weld it to the side, in a location similar to where the Milano throttle body mounts to the Milano style plenum, see Pics 3 and 4. However, as shown in Pic 5 the Motronic has the idle control valve and the oil vapor separator mounted on the side, sigh... Another possibility is to re-locate the throttle body mount to the front of the plenum, but that will result in the throttle body hanging over the front of the engine (possibly to high to clear the hood) and leaving little space for the air box. All in all, I'm leaning towards the 180 degree bend. One could attempt to flip the plenum 180 degrees and mount it over the other bank, but that might interfer with the brake setup, putting more weight on the driver side, and not least, mounting will have to be added to the left valve cover, and the oil filler neck would need to be relocated to the right valve cover... Oh, and why don't I use the Milano plenum? No fitting for the 164 idle valve, and smaller runners?

The 180 degree bend that I'm leaning towards can be seen on Chip's pics of his old 24v Milano here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/show...ght=24v+milano

Any ideas?

Jes

**nizam** · #**686** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 11:18 PM

Jes - I have the "Larry u-bend" setup in my 164S install. I get to keep all of the stuff you mentioned above.

I don't think you'll notice any loss of power by doing the u-bend but I also do not have empirical data to prove that supposition. I do know that my 164S motor in my blue car doesn't give up anything, even at almost 120K miles (hard miles I might add). Personally, going the u-bend method means you get to use all the components from the 164S donor, including the air boot as well as the stock airbox when it comes to smog time.

Seen here with the cone filter for track use only. I think you're gonna like that 164S engine (with Motronic) in your car, Jes.

**AR4me** · #**687** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 11:22 PM

Thanks for the pic, Nizam - worth a 1000 words. Looks like the plenum is re-welded? Or, is the bend a bolt-on to the current throttle mount on the plenum, and then another mounting plate at the end of the bend for the throttle body?

Nizam, can you do me favor and measure the distance between the rear of the left head (the diamond shaped plate blocking the 164 distributor mount) and the firewall? Trying do get an idea how much I need to modify the Milano firewall to run the 164S distributor.

Jes

**75evo** · #**688** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 11:48 PM

Jes,

Is there a need for the 164S dissy? Just trying to replace the dissy is going to be a nightmare when the engine is in.

**AR4me** · #**689** (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 11:53 PM

I'm trying to run as much 164 stuff as possible. I'm not quite convinced how you set up the Milano distributor. Not the nuts and bolts, but where do you set the adjustable Milano distributor??? Anyway, I'm hoping to be able to modify the firewall to have sufficient space for distributor maintenance. Also, the 164 oil pump spins 1.5 times the speed of the milano oil pump. Intuitively, if you switch to the Milano distributor, you will get reduced oil pressure when putting the Milano oil pump, etc in (which you need to in order to get 1 spark per cylinder per cycle), No?
Jes

**nizam** · #**690** (**permalink**) 02-15-2007, 12:02 AM

Jes - I had a discussion with 75Evo and Larry on two separate occasions regarding your dissy quandary. 75Evo also had an e-mail exchange with Beninca and as far as the dissy is concerned, I'm 100% confident that what you see in the pic above will yield you exactly the same results as a dissy on the back of the LH head. I'll follow up via e-mail ... and I'll document it at some point for future reference.