Thunderhill

[Todd]

Well, I attended my first driving event at Thunderhill. It was a blast and I have to do some more events soon. I need to improve the brakes, and replace the kumho 712's with some better rubber before the next one. Those poor tires were howling everywhere.

[nizam]

Nice work Todd! What kind of tire PSI's were you running front and back?

Do you have Porterfield R4S' brake pads on your Verde?

What was the track temp, and correspondingly, the coolant temp while you were there?

[Todd]

Hey Nizam, long time since we spoke. My tire pressures were 42 front and back comming off of the cool down lap. Max allowable is 44 psi on the side of the tires. The fronts were doing most of the work with a slight push when pushing it. They were screaming from corner entry to exit. The only other car I saw with these tires was a Miata, which I passed twice in a 20 minute session. Most people were on DOT spec tires or slicks. I have an adjustable rear sway bar that I'm going to mount before the next visit. The brake pads are the same one's that I bought the car with, (probably worse than the stock ATE's) but plan on Porterfield pads, and maybe the SZ rear vented rotor conversion. The brakes were not confidence inspiring at all, and probably almost dangerous when hot. The track temp we did not measure, the ambient was about 95 degrees. The coolant temp was slightly abvoe 175 by a line or two.

[Grant]

Is that the only picture you have??

What suspension set-up are you running?

[Todd]

Grant, the suspension is 27mm torsion bars with a large front anti roll bar, and Bilstein shocks. The rear is IAP springs with Bilstein shocks. I have a prototype adjustable rear swaybar from performatek that I need to get in place. Overall the handling is pretty neutral with slight push. I think the rear bar will even it out some. It's no coil over system, but I was suprised how well the car performed on crappy tires. The brakes are a different story. So now to decide on tires like maybe some Falken Azenis, or some Toyo's. I need something that can be driven to the track on. For brakes there are too many options, but I think I'll go with a vented rear kit from performatek and some Porterfield pads. The brake pedal also droped dramaticly and I had to adjust the rear pad clearence while there. The pedal never became spongy,but while staying firm, pushing harder had not much result.
Yes I have a crap load of pics...there was a professional photography company there with a slick set up where you could view your photo's through out the day on their computers.

[nizam]

Todd - those are VERY nice pics! Glad you got 'em. I'd be using them as my rotating desktop pics!

Sounds like your car is now dialed in, or getting close to it, for turning some serious lap times. The Milano brakes are really good when

• you have good pads (Porterfields)
• are bled before the event, and you have fresh DOT-4 fluid in the system
• used correctly

Generally speaking, Thunderhill and Buttonwillow are relatively light on brakes. With better tires (e.g. Toyo T-1S or T-1R, pumped up to 44psi cold) will get you close-to-R-compound lap times. With better tires, your entry speeds could creep up too, meaning you'll use even less brakes. When the "Milano triad" (Jess, 75Evo and me) went to Buttonwillow last month, we (Jess and I) were passing most every car in our respective run groups while we were on the Toyos. 75Evo will agree with me here that while the Kumho 712's are a good bang for the buck, a few extra bucks for the T-1R's will shave off the squealing and seconds.

You should come down with us to the next Time Trial in Willow Springs. See http://www.arosc.org for the schedule. It's a hike, but I promise you it'll be worth it! It would be great so see another Milano out there.

[hotcams]

Hey Todd,
Looking good on the track in that sweet red Verde! Congrats! That sucks about the brake fade but you'll get that sorted... Screechin tires? Yeah, probably would be a good idea while upgrading the brakes to buy a set of wheels/tires err slicks dedicated for da track. Tell me more about the big day and how the instruction went. How long did you get to play on the track? Next time I gotta go with ya. Please post more pics.

[Grant]

Could the push be caused by the IAP springs? Are you going to stay with those or go with something stiffer? Any idea when Andy will release the adjustable bar to the public?

While Falken Azenis are excellent track tires they make daily driving annoying because they are so noisy.

[Grant]

P.S.

Is that a helmet camera you are wearing?!

[75evo]

I've driven on the Kumho Supra 712 at the street of Willows. It's not a good track tire at all. It's a good tire for road use only.

The Toyo Proxes RA-1 might be ok if you have a 2nd set of wheels. You can drive them on the road and they do last longer than many other DOT rated race tires. Since they have grooves, they should also be drivable in the rain.

Other candidates would be:
Toyo T1-R
Toyo T1-S (on sale at edgeracing.com)
Hankook RS-2 Z212
Falken Azenis RT-615

[Barryh]

Todd,Get some cool air ducts into your car...That will sort your brake fade problem..Had the same on my Fetta 159 at Kyalami..removed that small front spoiler and could run 0 odd laps no probs..

[Todd]

Nizam, so do you think upgrading to vented rear disks, or adding cooling ducts should be sufficient? Or just fresh Porterfields and rotors? I'm using fresh ATE Super Blue right now. I could have passed more cars, but had to hold back for fear of rear ending a 05 Lotus being poorly driven that was holding me up. For tires probably Falken or Toyo from edge racing. If I was not sorting 2 cars, I'd probably spring for another set of rims.
Hey Mike D what up? My Instructor was Peter Inshaw from here on the BB. He brought his vintage racer Spider out and we took the initial laps in his car on Hoosier Speedsters. Holy **** that car is fun and Peter is an excellent driver. I noticed of the cars I managed to pass that they started to use the same lines that Peter had shown me. This event was a huge blast, you need to come to one. Track time about 2 hours total through out the day.
Grant, yes that is a helmet cam however the sound is terrible because of where I mounted the mic. Anything above 60 is just static. I should have tested it out before going. My plan for the rear is to just mount the prototype bar and see how that goes. The push is not bad enough to warrant a spring change at this point. I may also try stock front shocks if the bar is not enough. I have not talked to Andy for some time, but need to call him on some CSC exhaust for the Alfetta, Ill mention it to him that people are wondering about the release.
Barry do you have any pics of your brake venting for ideas?
75EVO, The car mainly resides in the garage and never goes out in the rain. I only drive it maybe a couple of thou a year. So whats better the Toyo's or the Falkens???? Here another pic Mike let me know when you want to run. Nizam I'll have to consider B Willow. Anyone is welcome to come stay over at my place the night before a run at T Hill....

[75evo]

Todd,

If you need shocks let me know, I have front yellow Konis (6000+ miles old) that will be up for sale soon at a good price, PM me if interested.

[Todd]

Do they have less compression than the Bilsteins? If you look at the last pic, you can see the attitude of the front vs the rear suspension. I'm wondering if I need more negative camber also. Current seting is -1.5 degrees.

[75evo]

Todd,

I think it has less compression than the Bilsteins. I reread your earlier post, if you have the Bilsteins you probably don't need the Konis.

As for tires, the Toyo RA-1 would be good, but I would only recommend it as part of a second set of wheels since the RA-1 is a race tire. If you're sticking to one set of wheels, probably go for the Toyo T1-R. The Azenis might be too noisey. Grip wise you can check some of the reviews. I think Grassroot Motorsports as well as Car and Driver did extensive tests on several high performance tires.