High power transaxle fixes?? - Page 2

BigSwede · #16 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 08:34 AM

No, I would never say thet because it's complete bull****.
Torque is a totaly useless number unless you are doing som calculations on the drivetrain.
Horsepower wins races, torque is something to store under "facts and figures never really used"...

nizam · #17 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 02:43 PM

Well, best I can tell I have 200hp at the flywheel (and neglecting the loss transmitting through the driveshaft, ending up on the input shaft of the tranny) which should imply I have pretty close to 200hp going into the tranny.

Is it dyno proven? Don't know. That's what Alfa said I had. I have no reason to disbelieve them. Torque? From the same catalogue, it says 191lb-ft.

Presumably, that's what I have too.

Is my tranny hot after lapping on the track, you betcha. Does it work? Absolutely. Just because the tranny is hot to my touch as a human being has no bearing (pun intended) on its ability to function at those temperatures.

Unless wikidchikin has a big V8 he intends to put in his Milano, he's not going to be able to put out more than what's already recognized as practical out of an Alfa 3.0V6.

Call me a skeptic, but within my circle of Alfisti who have spent money, time and expertise squeezing hp out of those motors, you're not going to get there without some serious induction of cash.

Another tranny longevity data point; during the last AROSC enduro, Larry and Peter Kemos ran the GTV6 (3.0V6) around the track for two hours straight. That motor puts out about 200hp, and it has a standard Milano gearbox. They came in first, no tranny problems. Second place went to Frank Moore, Chris Mayring & Phil Guiral in a Milano. That car has, well, a Milano gearbox.

Now, wikidchikin could be a mad scientist and come up with a 500hp 3.0V6 (perhaps two pairs of dual stage turbos, and runs on nitromethane). Unlikely, but possible. When that happens, I'd recommend an Allison 12" rear end, and ditch the Alfa tranny.

These kinds of discussions are somewhat entertaining, but generally end up being somewhat academic with no concrete results.

Nizam
88 75 3.0V6 (only 200hp)

BigSwede · #18 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 02:57 PM

Hey, I got censored!

I'm not talking about warm to touch, I'm talking about having the common sense not to touch it at all. I burned my hand on the tools when bleeding the brakes, the hair on the back of my hand curled...

Something wasn't right in the box I think, got another box on there now and we'll see about heat next year.
Still looking inte the pump/cooler/spraypipe though, think I'll need it for my mental 75 project (stay tuned).

I'll do some testing first of course but the way I see it, the oil is completely useless if it gets too hot.

75evo · #19 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 03:02 PM

No problemo with my transmission. It shifts really well now with lightened gears and new linkage kit.

Hey, what does that Jaegermeister orange 75 have under the hood ? It looks fast...don't tell me it's a TS!!

BigSwede · #20 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 03:03 PM

Sorry dude, std TS engine...

75evo · #21 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 03:05 PM

Yikes! He dusted the 3.0 V6!!!! I think the 3.0 had the horrible 3.54 gearbox.

BigSwede · #22 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 03:09 PM

It does. Not anymore though.

I'm going scavange-hunting in Italy soon, looking for that 4.55 final-drive...

**papajam** · #23 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede

Torque is a totaly useless number unless you are doing som calculations on the drivetrain.
Horsepower wins races, torque is something to store under "facts and figures never really used"...

nizam · #24 (**permalink**) 10-07-2003, 10:10 PM

4.55:1 'box huh.

Well, good luck. That's out of a 75 1.6, which I believe has different carrier bearings than the 2.0TS and higher models. Might not fit your tranny case!

But, if you did get it to fit in your case, you're looking at getting to 100 km/h at about 4,000 rpm in third

and you'll have a top speed of 195 km/h. You'll get there quick, though!

Hey, while you're out there, could you see if you can find a 3.93:1 'box (75 Turbo, and 75 Turbo Evoluzione). I know I'd like one ...

Nizam

BigSwede · #25 (**permalink**) 10-08-2003, 01:44 AM

nizam: Well, that's the point isn't it?

We have soe really tight tracks here in Sweden so I think at least a couple och diffrent final drives ia a must-have. I looking for 4.55 and the 4.3, already have the 4.1 and 3.9...

Actually there's a turbo box (3.9:1) for sale right now on the Swedish Alfa club site (www.alfaromeo.org), doesn't have a price though but usually go for $300-500. Shipping probably will cost you an arm or something...

papajam: Quite nice article, a bit too much practical experiments for my taste actually.
Well I don't wanna go into this discussion really but I think all can agree on that HP is torque put to work and since we have a gearbox why not use the torque that is available at high engine revs where it actually makes some decent Hp...
I think that statement (sell cars, win races) originated in the time where engines either had a reasonably useful torque curve down low or a pointy useless one on the top but whitout any torque in the midrange.
Area under Hp curve between gear changes is the only thing interesting. Max ratings are quite useless.

nizam · #26 (**permalink**) 10-08-2003, 09:10 AM

Thanks for the link bigswede.

As for hp/torque in Milanos, I guess no one even thought about the weakest link between the engine and tranny: the driveshaft guibos/donuts.

I'd like to see anyone try to transfer 280 lb/ft of torque or 300hp through those donuts repeatedly.

The Alfetta rally cars didn't use the two-piece driveshafts, but an experimental 1-piece driveshaft because the two-piece one kept blowing up donuts. Apparently, there was so much vibration in that design that they gave up on it.

The IMSA 75 probably has the same setup (Bigswede, you have a few IMSA 75's in your neck of the woods, care to tell us about those?) The two-piecer is good for street/mild update use.

BigSwede · #27 (**permalink**) 10-08-2003, 09:31 AM

My neck of the woods? Well I guess it's the same continent but sure isn't all that close. Pretty much a 24 hour non-stop drive to Milan from here. Or do you mean to "the coutry below the sea", don't know if they are the real deal.

I'll take it up at the coffe table in the garage next to mine, they're building rally-cross cars and american muscle cars so they will surely have som input. One of them is planning to drop in a 818 cui Ford V8 in a Pantera.

Hmm, maybe not so much info in the prop-shaft discussion from him when I think about it...

Link to sick project

Oyeah, he has a quite nice Camaro too...

euroshark · #28 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 01:12 PM

I think my orriginal post was misread guys, I never said I had a magical way of getting 280hp out of the 2.5, I was just curious. I do believe it is possible to get that much from a 3.0 though, and I'm looking into it... but I never claimed to have anything!!!

andrewg · #29 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 09:07 AM

In racing trim the GTV6/Milano transaxle can have problems. Most of the problems are related to the inboard rear brakes. Here in SowDiv SCCA we run a six hour endurance race at Texas World Speedway. TWS has several very hard brake zones. In past enduros we have actually boiled the gearoil in the transaxle. The fix was to duct air to the rear brakes. Only one driveshaft failure in 8 years of racing. Was using a "rebuilt" driveshaft with supposedly new donuts, because parts to rebuild driveshaft in car did not come in for race. Driveshaft lasted 1.5 races and came a part at 110 mph. Never broken a donut on primary shaft. In road racing you are not slipping clutch or starting from standstill. Even in heavily modified Milano Verde's never had a transaxle failure.

ANDREWG