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10-30-2006, 10:15 AM
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OO≡≡≡<°>≡≡≡OO
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 773
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 Quote:
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Originally Posted by Graham D
Well JJ, if I were so fortunate to acquire one of your 3.2's or 3.7's, I (Mr. Anal) would be inclined to address those intake assemblies by dressing the welds and polishing all that aluminum to a very high luster. Imagine that against your black and shiny valve covers!
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'85 GTV6
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10-30-2006, 06:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,109
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Paul, I am sure your car is awesome. However it's sort of an apples to oranges comparisons. The Dawie Motors JJ imports for us a a reliable and amazingly powerful motors right out of the crate. In fact they are the most powerful motors we can buy for our Alfas at this time. There will always be custom mega cars dollar motors here and there that are faster but those just can't be compared to reliable motors built for customers.
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10-30-2006, 06:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greg Gordon
Paul, I am sure your car is awesome. However it's sort of an apples to oranges comparisons. The Dawie Motors JJ imports for us a a reliable and amazingly powerful motors right out of the crate. In fact they are the most powerful motors we can buy for our Alfas at this time. There will always be custom mega cars dollar motors here and there that are faster but those just can't be compared to reliable motors built for customers.
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im not comparing i was just asking for details as its the way i would like to go with my next 75.
to be fair my car has been fairly reliable through out its developement its just ive got to the end of development of things so have had to go different routes.
any way back to my origional questions
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10-31-2006, 08:44 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Granolaville, Washington
Posts: 3,126
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The intakes came in polished aluminium - I had them flat matte ceramic coated purposely because I like the contrast to the shiny covers behind them! As far as the welds, well, welding in itself is an art. Welding aluminium smoothly and evenly like this is VERY hard. This guy's welds are fantastic and were well worth leaving "exposed" (there is a custom header manufacturer here in the Seattle-area that also does not grind down his welds because they do look so custom and artistic!)
Just personal taste I guess.
Hey Paul, I was surprised; I was searching the entire BB and could not find some pics of your car and the engine bay anywhere! Maybe it is here but I am just behind the curve a bit? Please post a link here or start a new thread to show of your project - it sounds cool, but I have never seen it.
You "...only use the car once or twice per year..." !!!  That explains it. Yeah, we were looking for reliability along with power.
The Colotti is THE way to go! I am considering it, but budget is an issue and I already have the gearbox prepared (by Andrew Garcia.) To lighten we cross-drilled and back-cut all of the gears (1 through 5 as well as reverse) as they are ALL always spinning. We even managed to get some weight off of the reverse idler... All of the gears were shot-peened, the LSD upgraded to 4 clutches (friction discs), a race clutch and flywheel lightened by quite a bit and all balanced!
Working on getting a one-piece carbon fiber drive-shaft too...
Now, I see you talking about crank-horses last Saturday "on the rollers" so, this was on a chassis dyno...? What was the wheel horsepower? Elevation? - Sea-level? What was the torque? At what rpm? Can you maybe post a dyno sheet? Presumably race gas? How much boost? PICTURES-PICTURES-PICTURES!
So, are you running the 16v TS head on an old Nord block or a TS block...? Must be because they can't even keep the bearings on a STOCK 16 valve TS block to hold together...
Weights; Jes' 3.7 with a full FIA-spec roll-cage and still with glass and heavy, stock, US bumpers and under-body crap was 2550 pounds... We are shooting for a final number of about 2400 pounds by the time the carbon fiber and fiberglass and Plexiglas parts are on and the rest of the crap is striped off... (so, what? Maybe 1050 kilos?)
Never heard of the TOTB, but congrats any way. Top speed - who knows - 170-175 mph - with the 3.55:1 box and maybe about 150-155 with the 4:10 box...?
__________________
'87 Milano 3.7 Litre V6 156 Series 24 Valve - "Ducati Dark"
'88 Milano Verde - GoTech (24 Valve REAL Soon Now!) - Black
'95 164 LS - 6-Speed 3.45 L 24V w/UniChip - Burgundy
'94 164 LS Auto - Baby Seat! - Bronze
'84 GTV6 (24 Valve & GoTech Soon!) - Silver
'74 GTV Twin Spark w/ITBs & GoTech - Red
Last edited by junglejustice; 10-31-2006 at 11:08 AM.
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10-31-2006, 08:56 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Granolaville, Washington
Posts: 3,126
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In theory - if you had the power - running a 3.55:1 box with 215/40/17 wheels and tires, 8000 rpm shows 204.31 mph...!
If I can just pull 6500 rpm in 5th with the 3.55 before the cd brick-wall kicks in, we're running 166 mph - plenty for most tracks here!
7000 rpm with the same tires and the 4.10:1 box produces 154.79 mph on shorter tracks...
Again, this is all theory off of the spread-sheet that we have.
__________________
'87 Milano 3.7 Litre V6 156 Series 24 Valve - "Ducati Dark"
'88 Milano Verde - GoTech (24 Valve REAL Soon Now!) - Black
'95 164 LS - 6-Speed 3.45 L 24V w/UniChip - Burgundy
'94 164 LS Auto - Baby Seat! - Bronze
'84 GTV6 (24 Valve & GoTech Soon!) - Silver
'74 GTV Twin Spark w/ITBs & GoTech - Red
Last edited by junglejustice; 11-24-2006 at 10:10 AM.
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10-31-2006, 08:56 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53
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i have some vids of pauls car on a roling eoad but carnt get them hosted at the mo
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10-31-2006, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Granolaville, Washington
Posts: 3,126
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This must be the WORST part of this project...
I HATE this with a passion - just the crappiest part of the project. I love it all, but chipping this crap out sucks! 
__________________
'87 Milano 3.7 Litre V6 156 Series 24 Valve - "Ducati Dark"
'88 Milano Verde - GoTech (24 Valve REAL Soon Now!) - Black
'95 164 LS - 6-Speed 3.45 L 24V w/UniChip - Burgundy
'94 164 LS Auto - Baby Seat! - Bronze
'84 GTV6 (24 Valve & GoTech Soon!) - Silver
'74 GTV Twin Spark w/ITBs & GoTech - Red
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10-31-2006, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,925
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Whine, whine, whine... like usual  Come on, you love it 
I can see you are planning on retaining the AC
Ok, that's all for my constructive contribution 
Jes
__________________
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeating what I suggest or do is at your own risk - be critical)
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10-31-2006, 11:00 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Granolaville, Washington
Posts: 3,126
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A/C!!!??? Not me Dr. Milano! So, here are Tony's fenders - in fiberglass - all custom made from scratch! Real nice quality, real good fit and finish, more wheel-space (should be able to run 9" slicks if you want to!)
The Evo kits will need some modification to work with them (where the stock Evo bumper wraps around it goes too far towards the rear of the car now as Tony's fender is enlarged forward (and to the rear) so the Evo wrap-around section would have to be cut, and the end-piece spliced back on...
All custom stuff - all kits forward should then in theory be able to be modified here by him before shipment off of the modifications already done to the two 3.7s here... (By the by - that is Phoenix in the back-ground there modeling the fenders for us... Come on Jes! Where's the Phoenix update!?)
__________________
'87 Milano 3.7 Litre V6 156 Series 24 Valve - "Ducati Dark"
'88 Milano Verde - GoTech (24 Valve REAL Soon Now!) - Black
'95 164 LS - 6-Speed 3.45 L 24V w/UniChip - Burgundy
'94 164 LS Auto - Baby Seat! - Bronze
'84 GTV6 (24 Valve & GoTech Soon!) - Silver
'74 GTV Twin Spark w/ITBs & GoTech - Red
Last edited by junglejustice; 10-31-2006 at 11:11 AM.
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10-31-2006, 11:02 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Granolaville, Washington
Posts: 3,126
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__________________
'87 Milano 3.7 Litre V6 156 Series 24 Valve - "Ducati Dark"
'88 Milano Verde - GoTech (24 Valve REAL Soon Now!) - Black
'95 164 LS - 6-Speed 3.45 L 24V w/UniChip - Burgundy
'94 164 LS Auto - Baby Seat! - Bronze
'84 GTV6 (24 Valve & GoTech Soon!) - Silver
'74 GTV Twin Spark w/ITBs & GoTech - Red
Last edited by junglejustice; 11-24-2006 at 10:12 AM.
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10-31-2006, 11:39 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,925
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Looks good  Just bolt those front fenders on while you are there
How about the rear fenders? What's the plan? Will we do it in metal or spliced on fiberglass?
Jes
__________________
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeating what I suggest or do is at your own risk - be critical)
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10-31-2006, 11:55 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Gay Area
Posts: 1,617
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What about the parking brake, do the rear calipers have the feature?
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10-31-2006, 04:05 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by junglejustice
The intakes came in polished aluminium - I had them flat matte ceramic coated purposely because I like the contrast to the shiny covers behind them! As far as the welds, well, welding in itself is an art. Welding aluminium smoothly and evenly like this is VERY hard. This guy's welds are fantastic and were well worth leaving "exposed" (there is a custom header manufacturer here in the Seattle-area that also does not grind down his welds because they do look so custom and artistic!)
Just personal taste I guess.
Hey Paul, I was surprised; I was searching the entire BB and could not find some pics of your car and the engine bay anywhere! Maybe it is here but I am just behind the curve a bit? Please post a link here or start a new thread to show of your project - it sounds cool, but I have never seen it.
You "...only use the car once or twice per year..." !!! That explains it. Yeah, we were looking for reliability along with power.
The Colotti is THE way to go! I am considering it, but budget is an issue and I already have the gearbox prepared (by Andrew Garcia.) To lighten we cross-drilled and back-cut all of the gears (1 through 5 as well as reverse) as they are ALL always spinning. We even managed to get some weight off of the reverse idler... All of the gears were shot-peened, the LSD upgraded to 4 clutches (friction discs), a race clutch and flywheel lightened by quite a bit and all balanced!
Working on getting a one-piece carbon fiber drive-shaft too...
Now, I see you talking about crank-horses last Saturday "on the rollers" so, this was on a chassis dyno...? What was the wheel horsepower? Elevation? - Sea-level? What was the torque? At what rpm? Can you maybe post a dyno sheet? Presumably race gas? How much boost? PICTURES-PICTURES-PICTURES!
So, are you running the 16v TS head on an old Nord block or a TS block...? Must be because they can't even keep the bearings on a STOCK 16 valve TS block to hold together...
Weights; Jes' 3.7 with a full FIA-spec roll-cage and still with glass and heavy, stock, US bumpers and under-body crap was 2550 pounds... We are shooting for a final number of about 2400 pounds by the time the carbon fiber and fiberglass and Plexiglas parts are on and the rest of the crap is striped off... (so, what? Maybe 1050 kilos?)
Never heard of the TOTB, but congrats any way. Top speed - who knows - 170-175 mph - with the 3.55:1 box and maybe about 150-155 with the 4:10 box...? |
jj,
i tend to not make much fuss about my car to be honest as there is certain routes that i have taken which a few people dont agree with especially with regards to the engine. so i dont realy have any pics of the engine bay yet, there is several pics on the site of the car in various posts. Also i started the project when i was 18 so 5 years ago now and i have never been one for technology so i dont have any real photos of the project its self only a few little ones my dad took as i was going along or pics of the car now finished.
also i may only have it out a couple of times a year but the car gets severly abused in the time it is out this year alone the car has done over 30 standing 1/4s 2 track days and about 5 rolling road sessions with out a hickup. although i must confess im sure ill need a rebuild before the 3.7s.
your gearbox sounds similar to mine except for who has made them although i have had to replace 5th twice now.
i contemplated a carbon fibre prop but after shearing a couple in 2 of which i also have pics i was worried about the cost implications so have had it made out of steel.
yes crank power on a rolling road. the rwhp was 434.9 bhp and 558.4 respective of nos use. elevation and sea level? that not something we take into account over here in the uk.
the torque at the rear wheels was 389ft lbs and 501 ft lbs also respective of nos. this torque is at 3600rpm and the engine revs to 8500rpm. i have the dyno sheet but dont know how to get it up in the board????
these powers are currently on pump gas ive not yet stretched into race gas as over here it is very very expensive, but the peak boost i run is 2.0bar which tails off to 1.8bar.
im not running a ts head or any sort as i found them to unreliable i actually utilise a cosworth 16 valve head, and again the ts ali block was not good as i could not get the clamping pressure needed to hold it all together with the high amount of boost. it kept lifting the liners. so i have a ts block made out of iron and long studded the block so i now clamp the head down to 98 ft lbs with a torque wrench.
1050 kgs is good, mine now weighs 960kgs with all the carbon bits and the windows in plastic but dont forget my engine is a fair bit lighter also.
170-175 is very respectable and believe me it feels very fast in a 75, ive got a vid of my car on the rollers in 4th gear maxing out at 168mph or 269kph. in 5th we stopped at 190mph due to the chance of causing damage to the rollers. im not sure what the ratios are of the diff i have but i do also have huge rear wheels compared to the standard size and couple this with the higher revs the engine now has it means for a high top speed. the fastest ive had driving the car is 182mph up an airstrip but one of my windows popped out so i aborted the run.
make no mistake i have spent a vast amount of money on this car to achieve what i want out of it. we are talking thousands and thousands in uk sterling and it still isnt finished.
but i wasnt posting to brag about my car as i said im very keen to do a 3.7 75 track car also. what sort of money has your project cost if you dont mind me asking?
cheers paul
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10-31-2006, 04:20 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Gay Area
Posts: 1,617
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I think US$40K would be a good starting point. The engine alone is gonna cost circa $20K+.
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