3.0lt cam selection and sway bars

[jazig.k]

hi guys,

after just bending a valve, im gonna do some stuff the the 75.
csc headers, GG's silicone intake and others, cams, 50% LSD rebuild, sway bars blah blah.

we stripped the engine apart and it looks like it was just rebuilt before i bought it. liners still have hone marks in them, valves look shmick [minus the bend lol] etc etc.
i dont think ill touch the ports etc, just get the head skimmed a little.
i use the car everyday, but drive it hard often.

what are your oppinions on the following cams? what other cams do you think i should look at

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...ance-cams.html

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...-rod-cams.html

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...0-700-obo.html

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right-o. now for sway bars.

ebay lately has been advertising 24mm and 27mm front sway bars, both in solid or adjustable. made to order. but the guys advertise them as if the gtv, gtv6, 75, 90 and alfetta's all run different ones. even the pricing is different for some of them.
its cheaper to get the 24mm adjustable for a 90 than it is for the 75 or gtv [$50AUD]. dont all these cars run the same interchangable swaybars front and rear, only thing different is the stock diameters?

links below. i dont have anything to do with him/her. he/she also sells other sizes, front an rear for all alfa's it seams.

24mm adj for a 75 is 290~
Alfa Romeo 75 Front Adjustable Selby Sway Bar 24mm - eBay Other Suspension, Steering, Suspension, Steering, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 03-Dec-09 19:04:37 AEDST)

the 27mm adj for a 90 is the same price
Alfa Romeo 90 V6 Front Adjustable Selby Sway Bar 27mm - eBay Other Suspension, Steering, Suspension, Steering, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 03-Dec-09 19:04:37 AEDST)

should i buy a 24 or 27? im thinking a 24, the 27 might be too much for a street car.

[Duk]

OK I don't have experiance with cam changes but I was impressed with the achievements of Richards cams in AndyB6's engine.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...0-700-obo.html RJ gave them some praise, so I really think it would be a toss of the coin between them and ordering some from him.

Head porting: Why don't you want to? Scott Potter's V6 Porting Article looks like some decent advice for head porting as does ALFAGTV6.COM • View topic - 3liter big-valve porting..

What engine management are you planning on using?

Anti-roll bars/swaybars: It's only my opinion, but I reccon you're better off adressing the complete lack of front spring rate, low roll center, cr@p camber curve and poxy wheel alignment (lack of castor) before adding an even fatter bar.
I added Vince Sharp knuckle risers, some 105lb/in coil springs and 1* more posative castor (4* total, will add more next alignment) and I only use 1* negative camber. The end result was a huge improvement in turn in and HEAPS less understeer.
There's other stuff done, but I haven't driven her since it was done.

[Mound Dawg]

Personally I'm not sure how a 24mm antiroll bar is going to reduce roll. The standard bar is 24mm thick or thereabouts!

Most 75 kits (Ron Simons, Harvey Bailey and our own) use a 28-30mm bar so even the 27mm one they're offering is going to be a bit weak. I can't see from the pictures of their "generic" bar how this one's adjustable either, or are they just referring to the adjustable length of the drop links.

75 and 90 bars should be the same as far as I know. We make one design of bar and customers have fitted them to Alfetta GTV, GTV6, 116 Giulietta and 75, V6 and Twinspark (no 90s yet!) and reported that they go straight on.

I've come across this parts anomaly before though when I bought ball joints for my own car. The local parts place only list these for the 90 and not the 75 even though they're the same part! Bottom balljoints are only listed for the 75 and not the 90!

[CorseChris]

No results yet (still a w.i.p.), but if it helps, Richard made me a pair of cams for my supercharged V6 engine project recently. They look very nicely finished, should be harder than stock cams and given they were designed for what I want for the engine, I can't see how one could ask for more. Strongly recommend vernier camwheels too. Richard can do them, or if you fancy DIY, he has posted pictures of what they look like. I bought a pair from Richard and they work a treat.

Hope to get some more done on mine soon....if the weather ever gives me a break. Just need to finish the exhaust and swap out the engines - new engine is all built and ready to go.

[scott.venables]

Pretty sure the GTV6 (and Alfetta I guess?) rear sway bar is different, but the front are the same. The distributor of those sway bars is in the same street as my work. If you go ahead, I can probably pick it up for you and bring it to the Spettacolo.

Duk, can you please post some pictures of the knuckle risers? What size wheels do you run?

Scott

[Duk]

Scott, http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/pict...o-v6-3-0l.html has a picture of them hiding behind the brakes.
I haves 17s (not my personal choice) but 16 would fit and I'd say that 15s mght aswell.

[jazig.k]

thanks for the input guys.

this is all going to be my x-mas break project. iv got 3 weeks to do it. which is why im not really thinking about sending in the heads for some work. difficult time of the year id think.
i have about 4to5k [$AUD] to play with. i wanna get everything ready so i can start on my first day off.

the stock sway bar on the front is 22mm, and the rear was 18mm[by memory]
adjustment is 3 holes at the end of the sway bar, about 1" apart from each other. effects the 'leverage length'... if that makes sense.
iv always thought all the transaxel alfa's shared the same sway bars, just different diameters.

my suspension is stock, except beninca 180lb rear springs, and nolthane bushes in most places. the car rides low.

Duk - by knuckle risers, are you talking about drop spindles?

i was going to stick with the stock L-jet, and go the bigger bmw AFM. but i might just read into megasquirt some more... iv never taken something like that on and i dont know if i should try it just yet.

corsechris - could you post up a pic of the vernier cam gears please? how much did they cost you? is there really any advantage using them on SOHC engines? or is it just to perfect the timing with aftermarket cams and shaved heads?

no comments on the headers?

[CorseChris]

The verniers are there so you can get the timing right, rather than close, as you say. If the heads are shaved then they are essential if you hope to get the best from the cams. It shouldn't have surprised me really, but the sensitivity of the cam timing was remarkable. Without the verniers it would have been way off. No point in spending time & money on tuning parts then not getting the timing right.

Here's a post from Richard that shows the parts;

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...ts-v6-12v.html

He did post up a shot of a completed pulley in another thread as well, but I can't find it at the moment. You can see what;s what though - it's a case of losing the dowel, opening out the holes in the front part and making some eccentrics to lock it up once it's adjusted.

For price, best to check with Richard what his current rate is I guess - wouldn't want to give you wrong info.


Probably of no help to you in a 75, but I am using a set of 24V 164 headers adapted to fit some 12V flanges I had made. Bit of a half-arsed solution really, but it's got to be better than the stock cast manifolds I'm currently using.

HTH

[Greg Gordon]

Regarding anti-sway bars, the factory used 20mm, 22mm, and 24mm on GTV6s and Milanos. Only the Milano Verde (3.0 cars) had the 24mm bar. It's an improvement over the others, especially the early 20mm GTV6 bar. Obviously there are much larger bars in the aftermarket.

Greg Gordon,
Silicone Hose Kits

[junglejustice]

...and with those adjustable cam-pulley verniers, keep in mind that you don't have seperate cams with seperate profiles like you do on a 24 valve 4-cam for example! You can only change the timing of the overall left bank (inlet and exhaust locked together) relative to the right bank - overall (again with the inlet and exhaust locked together) and then the two banks - relative to the crank!

Your overlap per bank (between the inlet and exhaust) remains static - locked on whatever spec your cam designer chose to use... The 4-cam motors have a 360 degree, infinitely variable cam-adjustment design which enables you for example to advance the inlet cam and retard the exhaust cam separately, but there is not any way to do that on the 12 valve - other than trading out cams.

[Grant]

Late model platinum 2.5 cars had 24mm sway bars as well. Basically, I think if the cars came with Milanos had 15inch wheels, they came with the 24mm bar.

[Grant]

JJ,

I have a hunch that the OP is probably familiar with the limitations of SOHC motors if he's looking into adjustable cam gears in the first place! =)

[junglejustice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant JJ, I have a hunch that the OP is probably familiar with the limitations of SOHC motors if he's looking into adjustable cam gears in the first place! =)

[jazig.k]

well said JJ. these posts arnt just infomation for me, but they could one day be info for others too.

[Duk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazig.k my suspension is stock, except beninca 180lb rear springs, and nolthane bushes in most places. the car rides low.