My Help Me Get My $150 Milano Running Before May 1st Build Thread! - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #61 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-07-2010, 04:53 PM
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as I got a 2.5 the CR is super low. the 3L and the S3.0 are high. I would think a bump in CR would go a long ways. you can use cheap gas in the 2.5. my 3L has to have 92 or 93. and I still had to retard the timing around 2000-3000 so I do not ping.

1987 black Milano Verde, 1987 (made in 1986)blue $200 gold with ABS and LSD
1972 White spider 2000 Veloce
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post #62 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-07-2010, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Which part are you sanding now? Still the top where the cam covers go or the bottom that mates with the block. Please tell me it is not the bottom... You can have a shop skim them to clean them up (I did this on mine) or you can have them take off a little more to increase compression but first you (or the shop) needs to measure to see if it has been done before otherwise you can end up with clearance issues. I don't recall what the "safe" amount is to shave. I believe there are posts in the engine building forum about that.

Kevin
oh, yeah, i'm sanding the head surface. and the block surface. it looks beautiful. but i did check it with a straight edge and it passed the .05mm test so i don't think i screwed up anything. and i spoke with people who've worked at car resto shops and they claim they would use everything from electric sanders to scotch brite pads so i don't think the surface is as fragile as everyone thinks.....
also, i've wondered if it's better to have a surface with cross hatching or a perfectly smooth surface and once again, no one seems to be able to answer that. but i think i know why: it doesn't matter. i've seen both smooth & crosshatched so maybe that doesn['t really make any difference.

oh, well, talk is cheap. won't really know til i bolt this junk together. i'm getting fed up with it so i think i might just throw it together and see what happens. it's only labor which i've got in spades right now. so if my cheap head gaskets hold, then great. if they don't then what have i lost? a few weeks of pulling my engine apart again and an important lesson learned.

just friggin tired of sweating the little stuff. these engines respond to emotion, not whether a surface is perfectly flat or not. bolt it up and rev the hell out of it and see what the hell happens! that's my new motto.
\
(hopefully i won't live to regret any of this....)

and as far as compression, how much do you need to take off to increase compression acceptably? what's the formula for this? how do you know? i don't think the alfa heads have much that can be removed so maybe that is why you never hear of anyone doing this. i swear in close to 10 years on this board i don't ever remember seeing anyone decking the heads to raise compression--what gives?

oh, yeah, and stay tuned. as if you didn't think i was dumb enough, i'm also going to port the heads and maybe try a 3 angle valve job. i have some good info on the porting and also about a 70* valve seat cut to effectively increase the valve area by 2mm. i tried a little smoothing with my dremel to see how tough aluminum is and if you really need a host of carbide grinders. my dremel cut right through it! yup, aluminum is **** soft. anyways, still need to buy the Neway valve seat cutters (which is a litle bit of an investment) and some long shaft grinders and some calipers for proper measurements and then, voila, i'm off to the magical land of freeflowing heads and free HP and 7000rpm fast revving alfa engines.


cheers

bob

77 Alfetta Sedan, 87 Milano, 86 Porsche 944 Turbo, 87 VW Scirocco 16 Valve

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post #63 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-07-2010, 10:06 PM
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Had to laugh as I think that Ansa exhaust started out in Seattle. I bought that one new, tried it on the Milano, but didn't care for the sound when cruising down the highway. Had a drone that hurt my ears after a while. Since my two bros already have hearing aids, I didn't want to chance wrecking my ears. Too bad, as it looked fine. Sold it to Dave Grubbs back east. I guess he changed his mind on it as well. Oh well. Hope it works for you.

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post #64 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 11:05 AM
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I do think RJR has. and has the info. he also posted a very good pic of how to set up the valve seats.

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post #65 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-18-2010, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Had to laugh as I think that Ansa exhaust started out in Seattle. I bought that one new, tried it on the Milano, but didn't care for the sound when cruising down the highway. Had a drone that hurt my ears after a while. Since my two bros already have hearing aids, I didn't want to chance wrecking my ears. Too bad, as it looked fine. Sold it to Dave Grubbs back east. I guess he changed his mind on it as well. Oh well. Hope it works for you.
geez, how loud is it? eh, i'm sure i'll like it. can't imagine an alfa V6 being too loud but hopefully i'll actually hear this thing run someday....

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I do think RJR has. and has the info. he also posted a very good pic of how to set up the valve seats.
do you know which forum or more info to find this thread? and do you mean alfar7? or someone else? thanks.

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post #66 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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so here is my "hand-sanded" head. looks pretty good but i realize i should have them machined. might deck them to raise compression a little too.

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and the very beginnings of some smoothing of the ports. here i basically just ground off the factory ridges. the factory ports all have a small shelf where someone ground slightly into the passage and left a ridge or bump. i'll just smooth these out and remove casting residue. from what i've read, the intake runners and upper ports require very little or no enlarging for optimal flow. it seems all of the work will be focussed on the valve seat area and the just above. the rest of it is just smoothing to meet this critical area.

(oh, and it's satisfying to grind into the metal, knowing that you're sculpting your way to more HP. hopefully....)
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post #67 of 106 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 11:27 AM
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this might help
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfe...tml#post737865

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post #68 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-04-2010, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for that link--that's exactly what i've been looking for and then even some good links in that thread too.

it's all starting to come together and make some sense.

got my super cheap ebay micrometer, dial caliper and inside measuring caliper. now i've got to save for the neway seat cutters. i think i might be able to get by with just 2 plus the accessories so it should be around $200-300 but after that i'll be able to cut all the alfa engines i wish!

also thinking of enrolling in some trade tech school's engine building class. that way i'll have access to all the tools and learn the right way to do things and i'll bet i'll be the only one working on an italian car! then i can make fun of all their japanese engines and ask them why they all sound like muffled weed eaters!

word.

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post #69 of 106 (permalink) Old 10-12-2010, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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ok, back from the dead and considering the retarded city of LA has now tagged my car as a "public nuisance" i need to get this going before they come for it. public nuisance, huh? just wait til i get it going!)

anyways, did a rough cut on the ports. also, i found a used neway seat cutter for my 45* angles so i'm getting there. so here are the pics. tell me if i've made any obvious glaring mistakes.

enjoy:
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post #70 of 106 (permalink) Old 10-12-2010, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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and some pics from another head showing alfa's "creative" porting. no two heads the same, and sometimes not even close.


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bob

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post #71 of 106 (permalink) Old 10-30-2010, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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getting closer....basically stopped working on one engine and switched to my low mileage engine as the bottom end is all together and ready to go so now all i have to do are the heads but of course i couldn't wait so i ported and now got a 75* neway in addition to the 45* and have cut the seats on one head with one to go. (whew, in all it is a lot of work!!!) and still trying to gather enough info so that i can mill the heads but not getting anywhere so if you know the maximum amount i can mill and still use the stock cam wheels and standard timing, please let me know. hopefully i can mill about .020" for around 9.4:1 which is better than 9:1 at least.

more pics coming soon and hopefully a video of a flame spitting, sputtering high revving 2.5 V6 coming within a week....and a legally CA registered one at that!

bob

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post #73 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Not sure how this old thread got bumbed but after reading through it all I'd sure like to know if superloaf(Bob) got his car runnng and is now scrubing rubber off from every road corner.
Merril
old thread with many changes but the last bit is up to date and the heads are at the machine shop right now getting resurfaced so hopefully i start rebuilding this afternoon and then have video clips of the beautiful sounds of a ported 2.5 to show everyone.....

and as for scrubbing rubber, that might have to wait as the tires are bald, cracked, and have the bands showing just as you would expect from a car that's been parked since 1996! so until i get some new rubber, i'll have to be a little careful....well, just a "little!"

more to come, rebuilding the hydraulic tensioner right now, yamabonded the oil pan gasket on last night, and almost ready to bolt up the heads after some final valve seat cuts and porting clean-up.

can't wait!

bob

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post #75 of 106 (permalink) Old 11-05-2010, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
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Good to hear you're progressing there Bob ! I really enjoyed reading your posts and your style of writing is very entertaining.

Regarding tires, how about some used ones somewhere ? I ran some hard old Firestones for a number of years. They allowed me to obtain substantial slip angles without acheiving very much speed. They'd get quite greasy as they got hot but that just added to the fun !

Anyway, keep us posted with verbage and visuals Bob !

Merril
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thanks for the good words, merril. wondered if anyone was reading any of this.

so got my heads back from the machine shop and was rebuilding them. got the first one done enough to check the valve clearance, which was of course off due to the new cuts on the seats so now i have to figure the shims i will need. but then as i was beginning on the second head, look what i saw:

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a cracked exhaust guide which was caused by my expandable pilot for the neway cutters. i felt it and heard it cracking as i was tightening but of course i had no idea what was happening and figured it was something in the pilot creaking. anyways, found a lone guide at john's alfa romance which was on my way to the machine shop so not a lot of lost time but more money and half a day, i suppose. so now it's at the machine shop and just hope they do it right. then i have to recut the seat, clean it over again and go from there.

some more pics of my heads:
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oh, and something which has me worried. you can see where i lapped the valve and where the valve is sitting on the seat (the dull part.) it is at the outer edge and according to what i've read, it should be more in the middle to a third from the edge. also, i narrowed it quite a bit but left it at .060" and richard of RJR (alfar7) said you can go to .040" on the intake.
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and the exhaust which i left a lot wider as the exhaust is much bigger than the ideal so i was more conservative and left the width at about .090" (RJR said to use .050".) stock is around .120" IIRC.

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so hopefully i don't burn up my valves but this is an act of desperation as i need to get this running and registered so the city of LA will get the hell out of my business and leave us alone. i guess you shouldn't tell the housing dept. guy to go %&$# himself but i couldn't resist after i tried everything i could think of and then my italian temper got the best of me! so of he ran, in a wake of cheap old spice cologne or something, acting like he had never heard those words before! huh? am i the only one to ever tell him that? i find that hard to believe. i guess i can almost thank him as otherwise i wouldn't be this close to getting the milano going....knock on wood....

bob

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