How do I get the &%$#@* Torsion Bars Out?

[La Voce]

...I should grind the spacers the first time around. Exactly what are these spacers? Are they depicted in the shop manual?

[junglejustice]

Have done them on one car before and 2 more cars after the Verde experience and did not have this much of an issue... Once you have them loose, use copper grease to keep them loose in between tries... In and out - in and out...

Just use a bolt with washers on the back of the t-bars and they should pull out rear-ward unles...

Sam, yeah, the Verde bars are bigger...

Never do that again - Ron's coil-overs and stock bars is what you want...

[SamW]

Jim, the spacers are between the frame and the lower A-arm, there are two big bolts holding the lower A-arm on, and the spacers hold the A-arm away from the frame rail. If you grind them down, only grind about an 1/8" off of them, I don't think you will need more than that to get the camber right. Thanks JJ! I guess I have two sets of Verde bars, I will make sure to save them.

[La Voce]

We have the lower A-arms completely separated from the uppers and at full droop. According to the shop manual that should unload the bars, but we can't budge them. Sprayed them generously with penetrant at both ends, tapped them forcefully with a sledge near the spline ends, then rigged up an M10 x1.25 bolt and heavy duty washer special tool substitute as you have described above. When we torque down on the home made special tool at the rear of the bar, we are merely deforming (cupping) the washer inwards and stretching the bolt, and it is 8.8 grade. The torsion bar is not backing out at all. We have not tried loosening the lower A arm mount bolts, that will be tomorrow's effort. Can anyone think of anything else we may be missing or have neglected to do?
Thanks

[junglejustice]

Not clear on where you are at this stage, but do you have that front, traingular, lower control arm as THE ONLY THING connected to the t-bar at this stage...?

Do you have IT loose from the car!?

So, NONE of the following are touching the lower control-arm now:
1) The shock's bottom mount
2) The lower ball-joint from the hub-spindle
3) The anti-roll bar reaction arm
4) The two bolts that hold the lower control arm to the chassis of the car

Hub-assembly and brake caliper and shock are ALL zip-tied up and out of the way... Nothing is resting on that control arm...

Now, screw a long bolt with the correct thread in to the back of the t-bar (with a couple of REALLY thick spacers/washers and wrench the crap out of that thing...) Keep adding spacers because you will bottom the bolt out inside the t-bar...

It will come. Up to this point don't cut/weld or grind anything (other than making spacers...) You may need 6-10 fresh bolts for the entire process if you are going to go up and down up and down on this thing to get the correct ride-height...

Once you strip the thread inside the bar, THEN only do you take out your angle-grinder and cut the bar in half. The lower control arm will drop to the ground with the piece of the t-bar on it and press it out in a press or a vice...

Take a sledge to the half of the t-bar still stuck in the cross-member. Be careful! Use major heat on it!

Copper grease all of the threads - did you mark the cross member AS WELL as the t-bar so that you know where you are and where you are going.... (Front and rear marks on both the sets of splines)

[La Voce]

JJ,
Thanks for the follow-up. We have not done #4 on your list and did not remove the hub assy and brake caliper, will do that next.
Again, appreciate the help.

[La Voce]

If anyone is on line this afternoon I need your help. We are trying to determine if the shop manual depiction of a drop or rise of 2.5mm (0.1 inch) per torsion bar tooth is to be taken literally, in other words, if I want a drop of one inch at the front, do I rotate the bars 10 teeth? This seems excessive given that there are only 35 teeth to complete a 360 degree circle. I'm afraid if I rotate the bar that much the fender will be sitting atop the front tire when I put it back together.
Thanks!

[Craig]

G'Day Jim,

You've fallen for the common misunderstanding, you have to do 10 at the "A" arm and 10 in the opposite direction at the chassis spline. The difference in the number of teeth at each end means a difference of approx 2.5mm per tooth.

However if you want 25mm, you only need to change by one tooth at one end.

See this post for more info http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/show...52&postcount=2

[La Voce]

Ahhh, thanks! I did not realize you could rotate such a solid bar in opposite directions at each end...which, BTW, may never happen anyway, as I am at the point where I have completely removed the lower arm and the tbar is only attached to the car at the rear chassis end, but it won't budge. We have tried driving it forward with a sledge and pin, driving the front rearward with a sledge and pin, and of courser, the original method of using a bolt and spacers and cranking on it hard. Nothing has caused it to budge from its rear mount. I'm afraid to crank down with full force on the bolt tool for fear of twisting it off inside the tbar.

[Craig]

G'Day Jim,

My prefered method is using a set screw (fully threaded bolt) or all thread and a nut and washer.

Run the nut all the way up the bolt, add washer, screw bolt fully into the torsion bar then tighten the nut.

This way the maximum amount of thread is in the torsion bar and the only thing likely to strip is the nut. Much safer and little or no stuffing around with more and more washers. If the nut strips too easily, use a long nut or coupling nut.

Currently your choices are: adjust the "A" arm end one tooth (about 25mm, 1")
or put it all back together with lots of your favorite blaster and find some bumpy roads.

[junglejustice]

Good idea with the bolt and nut... Then again, even if you do twist the bolt of in there at this point you are no worse off... You need heat now - BIG flame and just heat and hammer and twist and pull and heat and hammer and twist...

The back is 1/2 the amount of the front splines in movement - just one tooth up front is A BUNCH!!!

[Craig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by junglejustice The back is 1/2 the amount of the front splines in movement - just one tooth up front is A BUNCH!!!

[La Voce]

Finished! Thanks so much to all for the help. After removing the lower A-arms completely from chassis and trying all suggestions in this thread, including flame, sledge hammering, stretching the M10 X 1.25 grade 8 bolt while cupping every stack of washers we cranked against, and then deforming a new grade 8 bolt with more sledge hammering trying to drive the tbar forward, with absolutely no results, we decided to leave the rear alone. We adjusted one tooth lower with the front spline alone. The result was a drop of approximately 32mm, or about 1.25 inches. With the IAP rear lowering springs in the back, the car looks GREAT. She looks even the racing breed that courses through her blood. Again thanks to Craig, JJ, and SamW for the assistance. Next stop is to an alignment shop.

[Philip Hehir]

If you would all like to know the easy method to get the T-bars out..... No grinding, no hours of smashing the ends, even the most rusted ones will come out easy this way.

I was told by an Alfa mechanic this method and each time they just slide out if just been freshly greased. The method is to (after everything is undone) is to get a large hammer and give it a smack about half way down the bar and get it to ring (like a tuning fork) the ringing/vibration will loosen even the most rusted in ones and with it still ringging, just slide out the bar with your fingers.....

I've done both my cars like this and it's works a charm, and only one side out of the four gave trouble where I had to give it a little tap on the rear when it was still ringing also to free it.

Phil.

[dretceterini]

You need a special Alfa tool, part number 876-5301, called a "Keebonger", basically a giant rubber-headed mallet. Unfortunately it is now almost impossible to find, and costs around $500 if you do. Beware of the fake replica Keebongers often sold on e-bay for around $19.95