Milano Race Car Project - ICSCC - Page 7 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #91 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-alfa75 View Post
As it turned out, the V6 and the 115 rear caliper have the same internals when you split the calipers.
Actually they don't. While the pistons are the same size the pistons themselves are completely different and not interchangable. The transaxle (v6) calipers have all that threaded screw stuff for setting the pad clearance that the 115 calipers don't have.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
The transaxle (v6) calipers have all that threaded screw stuff for setting the pad clearance that the 115 calipers don't have.
One big part of the rear brake fade equation. I think all that steel acts as a heat sink basically.

As long as you have to do the plumbing anyway, i'd consider adding a "Line Lock" or "Roll Stop" as they are also referred to. as your P-brake. Or carry chocks around all the time.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:52 AM
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Weight penalty?

ToonRboy-

Where did you see the weight penalty you mentioned in the ST rules? I couldn't find any restrictions or even mention of brakes. The class seems to be limited mostly by wheel width and power to weight ratio...

Also, race cars do not need parking brakes. Even in a street driven track day car, you never use the p-brake to hold the car when you come off the track. The brakes are too hot and you can damage the rotors and pads. You can use wheel chocks, but usually you just leave the car in gear. It will still be there when you get back.

~Chris
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:12 AM
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Totally disagree on the parking brake. I have built two race cars, the first without a parking brake and the second with.

Yes you won't use it at the track but where I find real value is when loading and unloading the trailer. Or if you have a driveway with a hill or isn't level. It make it so much easier.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ToonRboy View Post
Very nice! But if they qualify as "Racing calipers" which I think they do, you'll take a little 100lb bump on your minimum weight.
Just to be clear, this is not "club" racing where there are points/penalties for specific parts and build process. ICSCC (ala SCCA) has defined classes with specific requirements, and you simply build within those rules. True there are some classes in which regs are based mostly on stock parts and "racing" parts are prohibited, and there are some classes (like ST) in which almost everything is open. Either way, if you build outside the rules for your chosen class, you don't qualify for that class... period. Mirko
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:32 AM
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brakes & such...

Fred, you're right about the convience of a park brake. We may install a line lock type hydraulic brake, not accessible in the cabin for safety reasons of course. Done this many times now for street rod customers who need a real park brake assembly.

Brakes are wide open in this class. We can have anything we want. As for pad compounds I have been using Raybestos ST43 fronts, and Ferodo DS2500 rears. I will go to DS3000 for the rears for even more braking at the back. The ST43 compound is used in Winston Cup cars, and is amazing.

There have been no overheating with this brake system. It is one saving grace on track to late brake the car when I run with cars twice as powerful at Alfa Club days. Just don't lift, and point by the Z06's 911's and the turbo'd Miata!

Hopefully, being several hundred pounds lighter since the last time I had the car on track there will be less point by activity!
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Weight penalty?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
ToonRboy-

Where did you see the weight penalty you mentioned in the ST rules? I couldn't find any restrictions or even mention of brakes. The class seems to be limited mostly by wheel width and power to weight ratio...
I got it from the ICSCC site: http://www.icscc.com/references/comp...1_complete.pdf
My bad, these rules are for GT, SP and Improved Production Cars. Admittedly, the SCCA site is difficult to navigate and find info...

Section: 1310

C. Official Weights
G. Brakes

<delete SCCA ST rule as irrelevant - thanks Desmo>

ICSCC ST looks like a great class in terms of competition!

Last edited by ToonRboy; 08-20-2011 at 10:38 AM. Reason: misinformation on my part
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 06:00 PM
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More brakes.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfaguy35 View Post
Actually they don't. While the pistons are the same size the pistons themselves are completely different and not interchangable. The transaxle (v6) calipers have all that threaded screw stuff for setting the pad clearance that the 115 calipers don't have.
Further clarification... the bodies of the two halves have the same contour, fluid passages, and bolt hole locations. Therefore we can split either the 115 or V6 calipers, install the machined spacers with o-rings and longer bolts, and we have a caliper wide enough to accomodate our ventilated two piece rear rotors, wether it's on a 115 or 116.

You're absolutely right about the rest of the guts being different.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 06:51 PM
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ICSCC not SCCA

ToonRboy-

These car are built to ICSCC ST rules. SCCA Super Touring is completely different. The SCCA class was designed around World Challenge Pro series cars. Basically it is a place for obsolete mega $$ factory race cars that are no longer competitive in the pro series. It is hugely expensive to build a car to these rules.

ICSCC ST is a budget class for IT+ cars. Lots of freedom but with a whp to weight ratio limit. You must dyno your car for them to establish it's official minimum weight. Once established, they can dyno and weigh your car randomly and if you are protested.

The ICSCC ST rules are here:

http://www.icscc.com/references/comp...1_complete.pdf

They start at C 1324.

~Chris
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:48 PM
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Custom exhaust

Trying to move on from the rear brake and rear camber discussion (very much appreciate the comments, opinions and conversation, buuuut....), let's talk about exhaust systems.

The amazing thing about Group2 Motorsports is that they know almost everything there is to know about building and preparing a race car, **** near everything about Alfa Romeos, and they know pretty much everyone in the business. We discussed many of the major systems and components of the two Milanos, and came up with a plan for sourcing parts and skilled services (beyond their vast skills) that met our needs. Of course, like with most projects of this nature, things did change and revised decisions had to be made but one of the constants was the source for our Evo body parts and headers.

The Shankle headers came to us completely disassembled (two sets) and the boys at Group2 quickly pulled the talent together to get them completed. Then we got into the task of designing the rest of the exhaust system. Shankle headers are continuous 3 to 3 at each side with a flange connecting upper an lower sections (like long headers). The system design called for the three pipes to merge to one at the collector on each side, then two into one and then one in and one out of the 6x15" Magnaflow muffler. Chris and I decided on the side draft out the passenger side as opposed to running a full length system to the back of the cars. The pipe was flattened for clearance behind the muffler, and the final step will be to cut the oval pipe through the Evo side skirts. The system looks and sounds killer!
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Last edited by mfx8898; 08-20-2011 at 12:07 AM.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:58 PM
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Exhaust cont'd

A couple more pics.
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Last edited by mfx8898; 08-20-2011 at 12:00 AM.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:37 AM
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Those are some inspirational photos. I might have to print them out and see if my muffler man can do that. He's done racing exhaust for over 30 years. He's awesome.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2011, 07:22 AM
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Nice. I didn't know that you could still get Shankle headers. What lead you to choose them over CSC or Glenwood headers?

Great pics.

~Chris
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desmo veloce View Post
Nice. I didn't know that you could still get Shankle headers. What lead you to choose them over CSC or Glenwood headers?

Great pics.

~Chris
One word: Cost.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2011, 02:20 PM
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Thumbs up You rock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfx8898 View Post
One word: Cost.
Lol. Makes sense to me!

~Chris
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