Montreal Ignition Issues

hmacris · #1 (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 06:55 PM

I got a Montreal with my father from New Jersey (we live in SE Connecticut) We made a day out of picking it up as it was in great condition and the weather looked good. So we get down to NJ and the car is amazing. Ran to the DMV to get the temp plate. We signed the papers and off we went, two hours home.

Not so easy. On the way onto the NJ Turnpike i saw (in the assist car) the car go through the "EZPass" Then accelerate away. I could hear it, then it slowed then nothing... My pops and brother coasted to an off ramp with a huge breakdown lane and said "we lost power then the engine died"

So knowing nothing about these cars we pop open the hood, then called the two truck. A couple hundered dollars later at 1am we had the car at home. I went through the manual and convinced myself that it was the computers. The first went then the second... Explains the loss of half the engine then total loss of ignition. So I traced everthing back and forth and back and forth and eliminated the coils and the wiring and everything but the computers. It must be them!!!

So i did a little research and thought that I could throw in two MSD 5 units in place of the computers. So we got some used units and got half the engine to run... The used MSD was bad. So got two brand new MSD 5 units with new MSD coils and put it all together and the car started and idles OK but doesn't like to rev. So we switched the coils, the points etc etc. every combo. We checked the wires, checked the cap everything. If we switch the points and the coils you get the same thing, if you switch one you get the engine firing then kicking backwards a bit.

MSD 5's are wired as such, white wire to the points, orange to the coil neg and red to coil pos. i have power coming from the old computer power (middle wire of the plug into the computer) one for each unit. Each MSD sparks when the white points wire is grounded.

When i throw the timing light on i see a line at the top of the little circle. As it revs it hits a wall at about 1500 then can with trouble get through it then sorta have an enemic upper RPM rev then sorta die on the way down.

So the car was running when we towed it here. Are the flyweights in the distro locked up? It was running... Remember. Are the MSD units interfering with eachother?

Does anyone have a clue what I have done wrong.

Regards,

Dean

**V8Alfa** · #2 (**permalink**) 05-07-2008, 10:29 PM

Dean. If you haven't already done so, do somr research on the difinitive Montreal website run by Bruce Taylor out of Switzerland at:

The Alfa Romeo Montreal Website

This problem is addressed on the website and has beed discussed in the forum several times. The switch to MSD boxes is a fairly common fix.

classicalfas · #3 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 07:57 PM

Where did you pick up the car from, and whom? PM me if you don't want to post it. If your ever down in north Jersey look me up. Good luck with your purchase and remember once it gets de-bugged you'll absolutely have a blast with it. Peter.

alfaromeo1green · #4 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 02:52 PM

Sorry that I don't have any expertise to offer for your ignition problem. I just wanted to say welcome to the neighborhood, and I hope to see the Monty on the road in CT. sometime. Very cool car!!

Dan

Alfajay · #5 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 04:16 PM

hmacris had written "....and eliminated the coils and the wiring and everything but the computers. It must be them!!!"

I am not an expert on Montreals, but I know a little about computers. Back when your car was built, computers were the size of living rooms, and consumed power by the megawatt (OK, I'm exaggerating a bit - but PDP8's the size of a foot locker were about as small as computers came circa 1970). I dunno what's in those electronics boxes that comprise the Montreal's ignition systems, but would bet that intelligence wise, they're closer to a Heathkit CD ignition system than to a computer.

Good luck with sorting out your new Montreal!

**papajam** · #6 (**permalink**) 05-22-2008, 04:02 PM

I would think that both CD ignitions going bad at the same time to be very rare. More common is one of the three points springs breaking and shorting to ground, points sticking in the open position and the distributor rotor ring for the B ignition dislodging from the cap. These would account for only four cylinders not firing, not all eight. However, failure of the distributor drive gear (someone replicated these gears because of the failures) would account for all eight cylinders going down.

If you would like the Montreal CD Ignition manual, please PM me your email address.

Clayton105 · #7 (**permalink**) 05-22-2008, 11:33 PM

I read this when you first posted. And thought it sounded like a fuel problem, but then thought, there are lots of people on the BB that will know better. Now, in my faded memory, I seem to remember tuning a Monty and having trouble picking up the ignition timing with a light. It had MSD... but it ran fine.

Are you still having trouble? Are you sure it is not fuel?

hmacris · #8 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008, 04:32 AM

The car has been hanging in the garage for a few days and haven't had much time to look at it. However, I have been trying to rope up as much info on the ignition system as possible to make sure that the MSD units are wired as they should be and to see what else the problem could be...Like I said the car was running flawlessly when we picked it up and in the course of 60 miles just went down. My email is harrisonmacris@yahoo.com if anyone has material they could send me regarding this that would be great.