03-08-2008, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Notar TZ2 at Race Retro 08
The Notar Z2 will be presented at the Race Retro show in Stoneleigh UK on March 14th. The Notar website has a good outline of progress on the car and Notar are now ready to accept orders. I have seen the car and the quality of manufacture is excellent.
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03-08-2008, 12:08 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North of Boston
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I'd love to know more about this but can't find the Notar website. Do you have a link or web address?
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Paul Leone
'72 GTV
'91 164 S
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03-08-2008, 12:09 PM
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In the Spider's Nest
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Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
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This is the site I found: NOTAR CARS
Best regards,
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Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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03-08-2008, 01:45 PM
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A bit more info, the shell is moulded from an original Zagato, the mechanics have been sensitively improved to suit 21st century driving; Twin spark engine, twin wishbone rear suspension, ability to use modern tyre technology and so forth. A TZ2 for today!!!!!!
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03-13-2008, 09:07 AM
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Pictures
Here is the rolling car as it left from Northern Italy. Hopefully I can post some from the show.
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03-13-2008, 10:03 AM
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In the Spider's Nest
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by AllthingsZagato
Here is the rolling car as it left from Northern Italy. Hopefully I can post some from the show.
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Best regards,
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Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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03-13-2008, 08:35 PM
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I'll be at this show over the weekend so I will take some photos and post ...
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03-15-2008, 07:34 PM
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I was there today.....!!! Not for me, thank you.
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Stuart
'56 Giulietta Spider, '57 Giulietta Spider Veloce, '57 Giulietta Lightweight Sprint Veloce, '60 SZ, '68 GTA, '76 2000 Spider
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03-16-2008, 06:38 AM
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Stuart,
Ditto!
Alex.
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03-16-2008, 07:35 AM
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In the Spider's Nest
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Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfazagato
I was there today.....!!! Not for me, thank you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Stuart,
Ditto!
Alex.
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OK, guys: what do you mean?  Was the car a disappointment? Or was/is the price too high? Please explain... 
Bets regards,
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Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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03-16-2008, 12:37 PM
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The car at the show was a disappointment and displayed precisely as shown in the photograph earlier in this thread. I thought that it might be finished! Apart from a chassis which looked OK, there was a body shell made in an infilled type of GRP giving a enlarged wall thickness. The red finish was not good, the plastic windows were approximate in size and fit and no mention of a glass screen. The rear arch shape bore little relation to the wheels. Indeed the rear wheels were literally just plonked into position. They looked like it too.
The cars appears to being partially made in Italy and to be completed in the UK in order to get "type approval".
The price would appear to be about $100k in the UK (the first one is sold!) but what it will be like on the day is anybodies guess. There is still a huge way to go before it can really be understood in any meaningful way.
As I said...not for me, thanks.
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Stuart
'56 Giulietta Spider, '57 Giulietta Spider Veloce, '57 Giulietta Lightweight Sprint Veloce, '60 SZ, '68 GTA, '76 2000 Spider
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03-18-2008, 07:47 AM
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I too saw the car at the weekend and spent quite some time with the 2 chaps from Notar discussing just these issues. The decision to exhibit was taken quite recently it seems and would explain a lot of the finish issues. The body finish is authentic ‘60s mould surfaces! and is due to be fully refinished. The thickening of the bodyshell is to allow an effective weather seal around the doors and increase the overall strength and sound deadening of the bodyshell as Notar are marketing the car as a useable, effective road car rather than just a track day special. The lack of glass is apparently down to the supplier moulding the glass incorrectly although there was mention that it could be due to differences across cars as the glass company’s pattern is it seems from another car. The rear wheels suffered from no driveshafts to locate them giving rise to the excessive camber seen! plus looking closely I could see one of the toe links had broken away. I was quoted a different price, 50K Euro or $80K for a fully built and trimmed car ready for SVA approval in the UK.
I have no link to these people other than having followed their progress closely over the last year or so, hence the ‘leaving for the show’ scoop!! This car is due to be delivered in the next month or so I was told and I have been promised some more images and the lure of an ‘open day’ at the Italian build shop when finished. I wish them good luck.
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03-18-2008, 09:06 AM
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I wouldn't have shown any product of mine in such unfinished condition. The level of fit and finish even at that early stage would not have persuaded me to open my wallet for a deposit. Too much to be left to the imagination.
Three things to add that I gleaned from the Notar representative at the stand. The GRP body is claimed to be taken from the original Autodelta moulds; the car will have a 155 engine; and the rear suspension will be fully independent.
Those wheels were truly horrific and I fail to see why they couldn't have at least borrowed a set of real/repro ones for the show.
Just my opinion, but at 80K Euro it seems almost too cheap (the Notar guy admitted that "others in Italy" have made TZ2's and realised about 250K Euro for them), and makes me wonder what short cuts have been taken with tooling and final trim.
Alex.
Last edited by Alex; 03-18-2008 at 09:09 AM.
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03-30-2008, 11:28 AM
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Reply from Felice Bortoli of NOT - A. R. CARS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
I wouldn't have shown any product of mine in such unfinished condition. The level of fit and finish even at that early stage would not have persuaded me to open my wallet for a deposit. Too much to be left to the imagination.
Three things to add that I gleaned from the Notar representative at the stand. The GRP body is claimed to be taken from the original Autodelta moulds; the car will have a 155 engine; and the rear suspension will be fully independent.
Those wheels were truly horrific and I fail to see why they couldn't have at least borrowed a set of real/repro ones for the show.
Just my opinion, but at 80K Euro it seems almost too cheap (the Notar guy admitted that "others in Italy" have made TZ2's and realised about 250K Euro for them), and makes me wonder what short cuts have been taken with tooling and final trim.
Alex.
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Dear Friends,
First I like to thank you all for the attention you put in our NOT – A. R. car, NOT-Z2.
Reading your threads they are for us all a source of where we must improve our job.
Just to give correct information, I would like to reply directly to some of you, but in the same thread.
ALFAZAGATO: Yes, the car is far from being finished, unfortunately , as always, the show arrived two months earlier than our schedule.
I appreciate your opinion on the chassis, but you forgot to mention that it is in the same CrMo steel of the original, TIG welded and so, but in heavier gauge (2mm instead that 1mm of the original); this has caused a weight increase of about 35 kg.
Concerning the body I do not understand what you mean with “infilled type of GRP…” maybe you are not aware of the sandwich technique we have used; this system allow us to counter almost entirely the weight increasing from the heavier chassis, with a far better rigidity; next cars will be laminated in epoxy – vacuum bagged – oven cured resins, obtaining a weight/mm2 similar to modern racing cars. For the future it is also foreseen the use of exotic composite fibres, while the core will remain polyurethane foam.
Finish: as was explained to those who asked, the paint was just a “shop” spray, so it is clear that the finish was not that of a ‘delivery ready’ sale car. Also, if you are familiar with the quality of GRP bodies, thank to the gloss you should have noticed the lack of waves, specially in the tail flat panel. If you know the original body of the car of the Alfa Museum you should have noticed the enormous improvement of symmetry, high quality shut lines, continuity of surfaces at the joints bonnet/body and doors/body.
Glazing: The windshield have not been shown so as not to show the supplier’s marks; maybe this seems odd, but our car will be the only TZ2 replica with modern homologation for the windshield, while all the others glasses are intended to be manufactured in vacuum moulded antiscratch polycarbonate (not yet delivered to us).
For your information, 4 cars have been sold: the one of the show to a Swedish customer (Friday he was at the show and looking very happy) one to an noted Italian Alfa collector (2500 SS Pescara, 1750 ex Nuvolari…), one to a Spanish gentleman who pushes everyday to have the first available car, and the fourth to the owner of the Ala Spessa replica you can see in our web site.
They all visited our simple shop situated in modest premises close to Mantova and they all have been happy to see how we work.
ALEX: Your first sentence is the proof of how many different opinions people have, in fact the majority of visitors have appreciated the lack of interior trim and the possibility to see the chassis!
Body: body is not directly taken from Autodelta moulds, but from a body moulded in an Autodelta mould; the work done on this mock-up in order to obtain an industrial product have been really enormous (about 300 kg of plaster !)
Wheels and suspensions: as clearly affirmed, the car is intended to be approved for road use, and, because of the impossibility to source tyres of original dimensions homologated for road use (R6 on the market are only for track use) we have been obliged to use modern wheels and tyres. Of course opinions can differ on our wheels choice, but they are light (9 kg) and TUV certified, while the original ones were in magnesium (so, not for regular road use) and, above all, no longer manufactured by the original supplier. The ones you can find on the market, and marked Campagnolo are probably “fakes” and we, at NOT-A. R. we don’t use fakes nor do we want be confused with replicas becoming originals after some owners and years. Moreover our so criticised wheels cost us 15 (yes 15 !) times less!|
Suspensions: also original rear suspensions were independent, but the entire system was very imprecise; our new front and rear suspension layouts designed by an engineer with a huge experience in sportscars and Formula one, will allow a perfect control and enjoyable driving.
Price: there are no shortcuts in our initial pricing. We have always affirmed that our car is not intended to be a replica suitable to be confused with an original one. We have simplified the car using as much as possible components issued from a 155 donor, we don’t have magnesium parts, we use existing, fully rebuilt and tuned engines, we do everything to offer an industrial product, not an artisan one. If you have an idea of industrial costs management you can easily appreciate that our price is a little low, just as introduction price, but not so unbelievable.
For the remaining, I can only say that in every field there are people who appreciate our job and people that do not, everyone is entitled to their opinion!
We, at NOT-A. R., we try to do our best, we are always ready to hear critics and opinions, and we will be happy to invite all of you when the first final car will be available for a test.
Thank to all.
Felice Bortoli
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03-30-2008, 04:42 PM
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Hi Felice, welcome to AlfaBB. I think it's great that you joined and give us more background about the car and your company. I look forward to learn more about its progress and would love to see more pictures.
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Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
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