Montreal vs. other Italian

[Bane]

I'm considering of buying an exotic sportscar of sixties or seventies vintage.
Alfas are my favourite cars, nimble and potent. They have caracter, and respond well to entusiastic driving.

But beside that I also want a more powerfull, more exotic and special car in my garage.
Main purpose of this car would be weekend pleasure, on some of the pretty roads around here, and more importantly, long distance traveling around the world.
So, it would have to be relatively comfortable, strong, good looking (although this is a rather subjective category), it must have a spine-tickling sound. Race-pedigree engine with 8 or 12 cilinders. Also I like the sound of carburettors.

After some searching and thinking, I have excluded all other cars except for Italian (only exception could be a 930 turbo, and Morgan Plus 8). Budget is 25-40K euros.

Choices:
Alfa Romeo: Montreal
Ferrari: 365 GT4 2+2, 400
Lamborghini: Espada, Jarama, Jalpa
Maserati: any V8 coupes
Morgan: Plus 8
Porsche: 930 turbo

What does Montreal have to offer against these?
Engine is superb, race-pedigreed, performance is adequate, maintenance could be easier than others.

Any opinions?

[RC Hiatt]

Has FI and is more refined than many on your list, less performance than others. Consider a Dino maybe?

[AllthingsZagato]

I think if its to be a Dino it would need to be the Fiat one.

[Bane]

Oh yes, I forgot the Dino, but I dont want Fiat's, and Ferraris are in 100K€ league...

But I also forgot the Ferrari 308. Carburetted models were very reliable, and quattrovalvole ones even more.

Montreal has FI, but that can be changed. Four twin barrel Delortos, and custom side muflers, with some engine preparation can bring Montreal to about 250 hp, and then the performance would match the other cars. Not that I care much for a few horses less or more, but the sound would be "spine-tickling".

[Bane]

How reliable are Montreals?
They seem to have lower prices compared to other exotics. I understand that much of Montreal is off-the-shelf Giulia equipment, so it should be easier to maintain it than others. But the engine is complex.
How many kilometers can they make without engine rebuild, with proper maintenance and if handled with care?

[Peter]

OK, here's my two cents. I have always found the Montreal to be a super good looking car. With current price level though, you could almost buy a 308GTS, and definitely an 80-81 GTSi (not the quattrovalvole) for about the same cost.
I, personally think I would prefer the Ferrari, but that may be because I have always wanted one. The Montreal is more exclusive IMHO, and although I do not know how reliable they are, I think maintenance is definitely cheaper than Ferrari maintenance. Others, those with experience in this matter, may disagree.

[Zunige]

Bane,
I hope BB member "classicalfas" will chime in here. If he doesn't however, send him a PM. He's owned more than one Montreal and he still has a great looking one, which he drove to the national convention, here in the U.S.A. last August. After driving more than 600 mi. (1000 km.) he ran it on the track (took a spot on the podium in his class) and drove back home another 600+ mi. when the convention was over.

Best regards,

[Bane]

I absolutely agree about Montreal beeing more exclusive than 308. Production run was under 4000 and 308 is produced in some 12 thousand examples or so.

With 308, it's much better to buy a quattrovalvole or an earlier carburetted car, because 308i is very unreliable. Leaking oil, all sort of problems, whole engines had to be transplanted, and no one knew why this was happening. Some got this trouble after only few thousand miles, others later. You couldn't tell which engine was affected. So the prices for them are little lower today, (as is the performance ). QV models were virtualy trouble-free.
I have heard of stories how reliable Montreal can be, examples with few hundred thousand kilometers can be found (there is one with 400K km).
Montreal is closer to me, since I'm already in Alfa waters. Maintenance wise, it could be the best deal of all. Lamborghini or Ferrari V12 rebuild can cost up to 25K€

Pantera seems like a good replacement for a 308 or Urraco/Jalpa. Not much space and comfort though.

[Halfnelson]

As someone who runs a Montreal I'm obviously bias but I'd recommend the car to anyone. Last summer I drove 2,000miles here in the UK followed by an 1800 mile round trip to Cambrils (near Barcelona in Spain) for the 21st International Montreal Meeting. There were cars from all over Europe in attendance.
In the pre-Internet era the Montreal gained a reputation for mechanical complexity, and the SPICA fuel injector does scare many people, but there is an amazing support network and excellent website and forum. Spares are much easier to source and bodywork is generally pretty good. For the money I don't think there's a better car on the market and the V8 engine is awesome!
But my one piece of advice would be to buy the best one you possibly can. One which has had the water pump bearing changed, and preferably had the brakes uprated with BMW callipers, regular cambelt changes and Harvey Bailey handling kit. Also make sure it's not missing trim.

Good luck

[davbert]

cam belt change in a monte?

[Halfnelson]

Not quite the correct terminology. Just been talking 156 GTA's and the need for early cambelt changes so instinctively typed 'change' rather than checked.

Cambelt and tensioners need to be checked every year. During engine rebuilds some people have the cambelt guides removed as the surface of the sliders can break down, others have them resurfaced in a more resilliant material. Still a matter of debate between owners.

[Bane]

Yes, I searched through The Alfa Romeo Montreal Website, great web page, many times. And I'm convinced that you get great car for the money. With such assistance and support, maintenance costs and problems should be solved much easier now.
I like to discuss and compare cars, there is always someone who can give great advice from first hand. Montreal was my first choice from the beginning, since I'm in Alfa waters anyway. Found little Alfas exciting and passionate, but I wanted to have something special, a flagship Alfa. Race-pedigreed engine, wonderful throaty sound, adequate comfort, and attractive appearance. (I really like the sound of carburettors, this is one thing that's missing... ). But before I take one, I wanted to check the alternatives.

Montreal prices currently in Europe are 20-35 K€. With my budget I could buy the best there is.

Thanks everyone for advices.
If I decide to go with comfortable GT for two, Montreal will be my choice.

[Oelholm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfnelson As someone who runs a Montreal I'm obviously bias but I'd recommend the car to anyone. Last summer I drove 2,000miles here in the UK followed by an 1800 mile round trip to Cambrils (near Barcelona in Spain) for the 21st International Montreal Meeting. There were cars from all over Europe in attendance.

[dru]

anyone know where you can get ac components to put in a non ac montrial?

thanks
Hot and botherd

[Halfnelson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oelholm - Sorry to hi-jack, but did I just read about you in a classic cars magazine? Great stuff.