1961 Giulietta SS project (parts wanted!)

[alfa soon]

Simon: I may be sharing progress and photos but BB members share advice, encouragement and needed parts.

Update: Yesterday I got the rear end out of the car. The ball joint on the locating triangle wouldn't separate from the diff housing after repeated hammer blows to a separator fork, so I unbolted everything and persuaded the locating triangle to come out of the body recesses. Now I can step up the scraping effort.

I also found a Veloce rear end from a Giulietta Sprint with the special emergency brake rerouting backing plates, so I am thinking of using that instead of trying to find and adapt a 410 LSD. Opinions? I am thinking that the expense will be about the same but in the future when I decide to restore the car I will be ahead of the game. Who needs limited slip anyway -I'm just going to tear around on the back roads and make the scene at the local cafes...

Last request: I need the transmission tunnel from a Giulietta Spider, from where the tunnel tapers down, about even with the front edges of the front seats to the rear sill. You can see in the attached photo the section by what is missing. I can get the floors in reproduction but not this piece. Anyone have a rusty parts car they want to cut it out of for me? Even on rusty cars this section isn't usually too bad and worst case can provide a template. As always, local is better...

22 hours down, 978 to go.

[Subtle]

The Veloce 4.1 open diff will likely serve you well.

Modern tires are so much better that the best available in the late 1960s. Then a Giulia with only a modest tune and aggressive road driving would generate some spin on the inside rear wheel. On a track without a lsd wheel spin was hopeless.

However, the Continental Contac Pros I have on the Spider have much better grip in the dry and wet. These are 175/65/15, and were made for the first version of the "new" Mini Coopers.

I can get some more HP out of the 2 L and the lsd will, at times, be worthwhile.

[alfa soon]

I just found this while cruising. One of my favorite car colors, and it looks great on an SS!

[rafael]

Matt,
That car was parked in Spa in 2007 at the italian car day. IT was not in a very good shape.

[alfa soon]

Rafael,

I can't imagine what you would say if you saw my car parked there!

Proof that photos on the internet are hard to trust I guess....

[John M]

Hey Matt:

I feel your pain. Perhaps we should chat at some point. See pictures for explanation.

Best Regards,
John M

[Stathy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M Hey Matt: I feel your pain. Perhaps we should chat at some point. See pictures for explanation. Best Regards, John M

[alfa soon]

John M.: That doesn't look half bad, those tires and seats probably wont fit or look right though... Are you sure you don't want to save me a whole lot of trouble and sell that heap to me?

Seriously though, I spent 4 more hours scraping junk off the underside and it's hard to accept but I am almost done scraping. I'd post another picture but it would be just another scary underbody shot that looks like it's fresh out of a bog.

Leads me to another question: Should I seam weld the car like a race car and brace the trailing arm mounts and locating triangle? I'm likely to drive it pretty hard, especially with a 1750.

26 hours down, 974 to go... arms sooo tired...

[John M]

Negative on the green. This one is white with the rose interior. Matt...I have been tempted...I admit that. The task as you know is daunting. My major concern is gathering all the parts. It would be freaking awesome of someone had an excel sheet put together with items to look for. I would imagine I'll end up making one. Mine is supposedly...mostly complete. I am sure some stuff will turn up AWOL. I have yet to gather all the parts from the previous owner....but will shortly. Probably this month. I sway back and forth on letting the project go...but as long as the parts are really as complete as it was advertised...I'll likely proceed forward.

On you welding question...don't know. Haven't driven one of this vintage to know just how flexible they are. I would guess overkill. I, like you, am going to drive this thing hard. I have been torn as you have about just what type of car to go for. A concours car vs. a trackable SS. Ah...either would be nice...but the track side of me thinks it would be a bunch of fun to go down the Zat road. Anyway....keep up the good work. I have been sitting on my thumbs now for awhile on this project.

Best Regards,
John M

[alfa soon]

Ordered floors, bought some small misc off ebay and did 6 more hours of cleaning, sanding, scraping, etc.

32 hours down, 968 to go.

This just came:

Dear Mister Hamilton,

with reference to your request we are informing you as follows.

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 101.20.00413 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Speciale, manufactured on the 9th March 1961 and sold on the 13th March 1961 to Società per il Commercio dei Prodotti Alfa Romeo. Lugano, Switzerland.

The body colour is Alfa red.

Yours, Sincerely,
Marco Fazio

[velocedoc]

"AR 101.20.00322 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Speciale, manufactured on the 12th January 1961" and "the chassis number AR 101.20.00413 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Speciale, manufactured on the 9th March 1961"

I recieved this today from the owner of this chassis. Interesting to note the comparison of the two build dates. There is a difference of 91 cars between the two and a time line of about 84 calendar days. That could translate out to about a car a day. You can expect good quality at this level of production.

Just having some fun with numbers.

[alfa soon]

Maybe manufactured date is the day they put the hubcaps on.

[Alfajay]

alfasoon:

I have had good luck with the ball joint separator from IAP (p/n 35796) for removing the ball joint from 750/101 diffs. It's pricey ($59.50), but it works well on the tie rod ends too.

Note that even though the Giulietta SS's were veloces, they used the same differential ratios as the normales (that is, 4.56 instead of 4.10 - see Pat Braden's "bible"). I guess this is because they were heavier. If you are running a 1750 engine, the 4.1 ratio will be better - but with a 1300, I'd follow the factory's decision to go with the 4.56 ratio.

My recommendation would be to build the car with a 750/101 diff initially, and worry about "upgrading" to a LSD down the road. The differential is something that can be changed out fairly easily, with no modification to the rest of the car. If you want to be driving it in this lifetime, you'll need to limit the initial scope of the project - and it looks as if the bodywork and trim collecting will be a big job.

As someone else wrote, it is important to have as much trim as possible when doing the bodywork. On a production car, years of accident damage can make the shape of the body and shape of the bumpers, grille, etc not line up, especially when you are sourcing the chrome from a donor car. BUT, on a car like the SS, the trim and body probably were hand fit in the factory, so there is little likelihood that a bumper sourced in 2011 will fit a body restored back in '08.

[alfa soon]

Jay -scope is definitely what I have been considering the last two weeks as I upgraded my infrastructure. I don't want to cut any corners on the bodywork, so it will get the best attention I can give it. After that, as good a coat of paint as I can afford. Following that will be a new headliner and front/rear window gaskets. Everything else will be whatever is most expediant to get the car on the road. At which time it will become a rolling restoration.

Quick underwhelming update:

I built a 240 sq ft mezzanine in my warehouse so I can spread the parts out, then I bought a 1958 Spider basket case as a parts source -and maybe follow up project. In order to process all the parts I bought some media for my shops blast cabinet and a couple of gallons of citrus degreaser for the parts washer. I am looking for a good quality cad/zinc plating kit so that as parts are cleaned and degreased I can paint what needs to be painted, and plate what needs to be plated. It will be nice to fill the shelves on the mezzanine with bags of clean parts ready to bolt onto the car. Since I am not planning on running much trim, the chrome shop bill should be fairly modest.

I am thinking of having a mobile soda blast guy remove the paint inside and out. Any comments?

I hate to admit it is still 32 hours down, 968 to go.

[John M]

Hey Matt:

Have you been watching this?

EBAY SS Project

I suppose it should make us both feel better about our initial purchase prices.

Best Regards,
John M