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11-20-2007, 09:12 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 15
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut
Welcome to AlfaBB, hansgta!
Why would looking at the car matter? Nobody doubts that it exists and is for sale. The trouble is that documentation seems to be missing and therefore its history is obscure.
The question that determines the degree of originality and therefore value is "has anybody seen documentation", not "has anybody seen the car."
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ok, then has anybody seen documentation & the car ?
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11-21-2007, 02:59 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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HansGTA, having seen the car, what was your opinion on it? and having been to look at it did you ask what, if any documentation existed?
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11-21-2007, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllthingsZagato
HansGTA, having seen the car, what was your opinion on it? and having been to look at it did you ask what, if any documentation existed?
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the engine was restore by JE alfa in england and i have no doubt that the engine was an
special tz specs...i have a photo somewhere
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11-21-2007, 05:08 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bussum, The Netherlands
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Authenticity
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
my opinion is that car is old, very old paint, very old interior, and i have no doubt about the comments posted here, some members have a personnal agenda. my 2 cents
the engine was restore by JE alfa in england and i have no doubt that the engine was an
special tz specs...i have a photo somewhere
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Could you sum up what you know about (the history of) this car having seen it and give us a clue whether you think this can be backed up with proper documentation?
Ciao, Olaf
__________________
Zagato_Olaf (Olaf Roeten)
Register Junior Zagato Holland
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11-21-2007, 05:27 AM
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Hans, what about the documents. I am not sure about the 'personel agenda' bit? are you saying you believe and could verify that this car is the 'real deal' ?
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11-21-2007, 02:54 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: France
Posts: 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
how many people from this thread have seen the car ? just curious !
me i saw it
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
my opinion is that car is old, very old paint, very old interior, and i have no doubt about the comments posted here, some members have a personnal agenda.
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Hello hansGTA,
What a funny coincidence !!!
Here in the BB, we used to have a very good friend (a famous car broker from Belgium)which was very often doing exactly the same mistake as you, as far as english language is concerned.
Another coincidence, he was very kind on TZ, like you...he even 'wrote' a book.
But I'm sad to say that he was banned from this forum...
Like you he was also requesting information and pictures of the cars.
Maybe it could be a PURE COINCIDENCE if you knew each other but you just joined the BB, after all...
Regards
Sébastien
__________________
- Giulia Super: '66 Grigio Grafito + '67 Grigio Grafito + ' 67 Amaranto (Italian import)
- GT 1300 Junior '70 Bluette (mistake: 2 doors only... )
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11-21-2007, 09:36 PM
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i m not here to fight, but nobody answer the question "ok, then has anybody seen documentation & the car ?"".
I note only that none of you has seen the car but you have all negative opinions. Pull yourself in the conclusions which impose. Is this really an honest discussion ?
No, I have not seen the documentation, but my friend sight, and if he had had the money, he would buy the car.
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11-21-2007, 10:27 PM
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I also note that in order to be friends with you, we must attack olczyk!
Had you read it as na defaults, which makes me say that your views are not honest and you have a personal agenda against him because he wins a proces against a member.
You criticize cars without seeing, c is pathetic and pitiable. Moreover, c coward is on your side because he can not defend.
Will you ban me because I do not want to attack olczyk?
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11-21-2007, 10:45 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
i m not here to fight, but nobody answer the question "ok, then has anybody seen documentation & the car ?"".
I note only that none of you has seen the car but you have all negative opinions. Pull yourself in the conclusions which impose. Is this really an honest discussion ?
No, I have not seen the documentation, but my friend sight, and if he had had the money, he would buy the car.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
I also note that in order to be friends with you, we must attack olczyk!
Had you read it as na defaults, which makes me say that your views are not honest and you have a personal agenda against him because he wins a proces against a member.
You criticize cars without seeing, c is pathetic and pitiable. Moreover, c coward is on your side because he can not defend.
Will you ban me because I do not want to attack olczyk?
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I'm quite amazed at what I consider to be a statistical aberration: Every time an interesting car with obscure history is offered by Olczyk and/or Vanderveken in Belgium, a discussion about the car ensues in one bulletin board or another, where a "new member" pops up who claims:
- Close to nobody on this board has ever seen the car in person;
- One can only form a fair opinion about the car and its originality by inspecting it in person;
- Some/many/all members of this or other BBs have an agenda; and/
- "Honest discussions" can only happen between people who have seen the car, dismissing the validity of any information accumulated by so-called "Internet experts," etc.
Even more interesting is that some of these "new members" start threads with questions about cars with undocumented or obscure history, as has happened with another car discussed on AlfaBB and more extensively on Ferrarichat.
Upon reflection, I must agree with hansgta/alfa75turbo2005/Olczyk, etc. that there are in fact members with an agenda, and I put them in 2 categories:
- People who benefit from selling a car, who obviously want to maximize revenues and profits; and,
- People who are interested in historical accuracy and documentation (a group I myself strive to belong to).
Much of the dichotomy between these two categories reminds me of the dispute between science and religion. Scientists and historians seem to believe in evolution, whereas religious people seem to believe in miracles and immaculate conception. I leave it up to you what you believe is more realistic -- and how it applies to cars.
__________________
Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Last edited by tubut; 11-21-2007 at 11:46 PM.
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11-22-2007, 02:45 AM
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I'm quite amazed at what I consider to be a statistical aberration, every time that a member don t agree with you, it s olczyk or a friend of him.
as people known, olczyk own classicscars and i see nowhere the tz2 advertise on it.
i see tz003 advertise or other cars but no tz2
car is advertise by vdv (a supposed friend), vdv advertise also a xjr15 that we can see advertise with fantasy junction, by your logic, olczyk own then vdv and fantasy junction !
keep your agenda open, it s so obvious !, i have more important fish to cook !
- People who benefit from selling a car, who obviously want to maximize revenues and profits; and,
- People who are interested in historical accuracy and documentation (a group I myself strive to belong to).
- People who benefit from selling a car because they have great knowledge, use it and use their skill to turn in $. (ex bill gatefor pc , steve jobs for ipod, symbolic, fisken, etc..)
A few years ago, everyone said that a bizzarrini 7 liters doesn t exist, one day olczyk found the ghost, must stop jealousy, it's bad for the health. No I have not the money to buy a tz, this is not a reason to spit on it
that there are in fact members with an agenda, good to known
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11-22-2007, 03:46 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Aken, Germany
Posts: 232
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I was already waiting for this topic to come to that point....
Concerning banned members, whatever alias they used and still use, I am absolutely sure that they themselfs were responsable for being banned!
Infact there weren't many members banned in the AlfaBB, but those who are truely deserve it, no doubt!
Funny that a brandnew member mentions olczyk as being banned - how does he get those infos  , hahaha
For me it's just a waste of time to discuss fake cars with those tyre-kickers 
Best regards
Ciao Carlo  |
11-22-2007, 04:58 AM
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In the Spiders' nest...
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
Posts: 4,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
No, I have not seen the documentation, but my friend sight, and if he had had the money, he would buy the car.
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What is the price of the car?
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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11-22-2007, 08:13 AM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansgta
I also note that in order to be friends with you, we must attack olczyk!
Had you read it as na defaults, which makes me say that your views are not honest and you have a personal agenda against him because he wins a proces against a member.
You criticize cars without seeing, c is pathetic and pitiable. Moreover, c coward is on your side because he can not defend.
Will you ban me because I do not want to attack olczyk?
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11-22-2007, 08:39 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bussum, The Netherlands
Posts: 331
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Documentation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagato_Olaf
Hello Hans,
Could you sum up what you know about (the history of) this car having seen it and give us a clue whether you think this can be backed up with proper documentation?
Ciao, Olaf
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I am going to repeat my question. Could you sum up what you know about (the history of) this car having seen it and give us a clue whether you think this can be backed up with proper documentation?
Ciao, Olaf
__________________
Zagato_Olaf (Olaf Roeten)
Register Junior Zagato Holland
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11-22-2007, 09:27 AM
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but this one goes to 11..
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alfaville
Posts: 1,879
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No, I have not seen the documentation, but my friend sight, and if he had had the money, he would buy the car.[/quote]
Then it must be real.. Good enough for me! I was New Orleans recently and a guy on Royal St. had a tiarra that he said was from queen Elisabeths crown jewel collection. I saw them they looked nice but without a wee bit more proof I was not to be parted with the asking amount. Besides I wanted to use the money on the bridge he was selling over the Mississippi.
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currently: 1984 GTV6 (Sabrina) 1992 164L (Jill) 1992 164S (Kelly) 1989 Spider Veloce (Julie)
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