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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2007, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Real TZ 1 750 003 for sale!

Hey, look everyone! The real TZ 1 750 003 is for sale, and it is now in the US!

1963 Alfa Romeo Giulia TZ 1 Zagato Coupe for sale: Anamera

I'm sorry, am I just stirring up old stuff again?
TZ1 Le Mans #750003 1964

John L
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2007, 06:40 PM
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750 003

Hi All,

The discovery of this car is mentioned in the book 'Alfa Romeo TZ', published by Philippe Olczyk in 2002 as a 'Last minute scoop november 2002 discovery' of chassisnumber 750 003.

In the pictures I can see a TZ-1 body shell and the chassis of a TZ-1. In these pictures I can't see an engine, gearbox, suspension, axles, interior, etc......

Ciao, Olaf

Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagato_Olaf View Post
In the pictures I can see a TZ-1 body shell and the chassis of a TZ-1. In these pictures I can't see an engine, gearbox, suspension, axles, interior, etc......

Ciao, Olaf
When raced at Le Mans, it was dark green.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 09:25 AM
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It IS the 003 Roland car with important history, and is back together, having recently been at the big show in England. VERY expensive....about $300,000 more than another REAL TZ with no history...or around $800,000.

I don't think Olczyk actually ever owned the car; he was just brokering it. The car is today being broked by Scott Rumbold (and others)..

I can get a better deal, or around $725,000

Last edited by dretceterini; 10-29-2007 at 09:38 AM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 10:01 AM
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I noticed it is missing it's grill bits, headlight trim, intake plenum/filter canister, Zagato seats, it has Compmotive alloy wheels, etc.

One would think on such an important car they would have made the effort to get the right bits together or carefully reproduced them. - George
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 10:34 AM
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The place selling it is right near me. Maybe I'll just go there to kick the tires and go for a test drive

Loud pipes save lives.

1973 GTV - bought 3/06, intend to keep forever
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 10:42 AM
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Kick the tires

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Originally Posted by lowmileage View Post
The place selling it is right near me. Maybe I'll just go there to kick the tires and go for a test drive

Hi Lowmileage,

It would be great to have your impression of the car and some pictures!
Would you be so kind to drop by and check it out?
A testdrive would be nice too. Chance is next to zero, I guess!

Cioa, Olaf

Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Zagato_Olaf View Post
A testdrive would be nice too. Chance is next to zero, I guess!

Cioa, Olaf

I'll see if I can drive by there in the next couple of days.

Loud pipes save lives.

1973 GTV - bought 3/06, intend to keep forever
1969 GTV, #AR1530021 - sold 10/72, guess didn't intend to keep forever
Current project: '69 Corvette bought in '73, DD '73 - '80, in storage 1989-2002, now apart
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 11:08 AM
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Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
It IS the 003 Roland car with important history, and is back together, having recently been at the big show in England. VERY expensive....about $300,000 more than another REAL TZ with no history...or around $800,000.

I don't think Olczyk actually ever owned the car; he was just brokering it. The car is today being broked by Scott Rumbold (and others)..

I can get a better deal, or around $725,000

Hello dretceterini,

I have seen lots of pictures of the chassis and body 'as found'. Do you know of any pictures of the engine 'as found'?

Ciao, Olaf

Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
It IS the 003 Roland car with important history, and is back together, having recently been at the big show in England. VERY expensive....about $300,000 more than another REAL TZ with no history...or around $800,000.

I don't think Olczyk actually ever owned the car; he was just brokering it. The car is today being broked by Scott Rumbold (and others)..
ROLLAND, it was jean ROLLAND., Dr
It seems that you know better the way to spell OLCZYK....


Quote:
Originally Posted by George J View Post
I noticed it is missing it's grill bits, headlight trim, intake plenum/filter canister, Zagato seats, it has Compmotive alloy wheels, etc.

One would think on such an important car they would have made the effort to get the right bits together or carefully reproduced them. - George
It's a pity that most of the fakes are much better looking than some authentic ones that actually look as if it was a fake (missing or incorrect part/bits)

Anyway the process is the same as this car was rebuilt from scratch, exactly as if you were building a replica.
Anyway a replica seems to give better value for money than 750003, considering the asking price.




Greetings from France
Sébastien

- Giulia Super: '66 Grigio Grafito + '67 Grigio Grafito : Daily driver + '67 Amaranto
- GT 1300 Junior '70 Bluette (mistake: 2 doors only... )

Last edited by sprint750; 10-29-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-29-2007, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprint750 View Post
ROLLAND, it was jean ROLLAND., Dr
It seems that you know better the way to spell OLCZYK....

It's a pity that most of the fakes are much better looking than some authentic ones that actually look as if it was a fake (missing or incorrect part/bits)

Anyway the process is the same as this car was rebuilt from scratch, exactly as if you were building a replica.
Anyway a replica seems to give better value for money than 750003, considering the asking price.

Greetings from France
Sébastien

Sorry, no photos of the motor "as found". The car IS 003 with extensive restoration, but of mostly period parts and coachwork. Certainly no value at anywhere near the asking price.

Yes I know it's Rolland, not Roland...just a typo...
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-30-2007, 01:35 AM
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Asking price

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Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
Sorry, no photos of the motor "as found". The car IS 003 with extensive restoration, but of mostly period parts and coachwork. Certainly no value at anywhere near the asking price.
Yes I know it's Rolland, not Roland...just a typo...

Hello Dretceterini,

That's what I was thinking too. It's a pity that sofar I have not seen pictures of the other parts that make this the 'Rolland car'.

Given the state the chassis and body were in 'as found' (See the book 'Alfa Romeo TZ') and the lack of pictures of engine, gearbox, axle's and suspension parts, my own conclusion is that this is the genuine car, restored with mechanical parts that were procured from all kinds of sources. Prove me otherwise!
That's why I would love to know what engines were in the car and what the enginenumbers are.

Ciao, Olaf

Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-30-2007, 06:56 AM
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TZ #750003 was owned and entered by the Milano based Scuderia Sant' Ambroeus in 1964 at Le Mans 24h, Tour de France Automobile, Tour de Corse, Critérium des Cèvennes and Coppa FISA at Monza, I found so far, but not at Nürburgring 1000 km as stated by the seller (only #750028, #750011 and possibly #750031). Jean Rolland drove it only at Le Mans, not in the other races.

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According to the ACI papers it was then resold in early 1965 to Alfa Romeo and its registration was cancelled.
It was stored in the outside until found in 2002, and according to the current seller the engine was found nearby the car a little bit later.

To show its originality it was just repaired and not repainted, but could not sell for 3 years (at perhaps 1/5 of its price now).

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It sold in 2006 when restored, but for less than half of the money they want now.

But there are problems with this car: as Patrick wrote, the original #750003 was dark green during its racing life, but when found in 2002, it had only red paint rests on it. Even if having been repainted in late 1964, it should have some green colour on it. When it was repaired in 2003, the engine was given as a double ignition with 160 hp, nothing was written about its originality or that the original one is seperatly with the car until 2006. In 1964 Alfa had no double ignition heads on their TZs. Tonnie stated it is not the real car, but Philippe meant, Tonnie is the great replica maker (see the other thread)

For sale in 2007 (Classic Driver - HOME)

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(btw, the front side markers are in the same stupid position than those of #750075)
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-30-2007, 07:04 AM
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Whatever - just another trailer queen IMO



Loud pipes save lives.

1973 GTV - bought 3/06, intend to keep forever
1969 GTV, #AR1530021 - sold 10/72, guess didn't intend to keep forever
Current project: '69 Corvette bought in '73, DD '73 - '80, in storage 1989-2002, now apart
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