 |
|
01-09-2007, 08:14 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
|
|
 Quote:
Originally Posted by AR58SprintV
Thank-you, Martin,
A similar concurrent misunderstanding exists on both the definition of the types of cars of the first Sprint Veloce series, and the number of such cars on the 'Giulietta-Giulia' area of this Alfa BB about Lionel's #1943E-06611 1st series Sprint Veloce.
It seems you and I disagree with 'dretceterini', review that thread. Yes, I get about 500-600 lightweights and 100-200 Confortevoles also. All confortevoles have the 06611 or prior hand-made body, roll-up windows (and eyebrows).
There is no back seat in a confortevloe except as an option, there may be one in ANY Sprint of the period in which they were offered. A back seat has nothing to do with its definition.
Cheers,
Laurence
|
|
01-09-2007, 08:59 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14
|
|
|
heavy lightweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superleggera
No 4067 is a confortavole SV and a geniuine one as it only had very few owners and low milage when it resided here in sweden.
No 2508 is a Allegeritta and was once purchased as a race car.
Regretably I do not have the Bertone body no´s of these two cars.
|
Martin, I tend to agree with you as for the SVA count, and the fact that all 56/57 (before september) sprint veloces were lightweights but for the odd exception. All the variations on these old cars are fun and keep the anoraks guessing.
|
01-09-2007, 12:18 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 72
|
|
|
africk, I suppose you are the owner of 4067. Congratulations to a nice car.
The first owner Prince Wilhelm Of Sweden was over 60 years old when he bought 4067 so he might have been looking for something more "comfortable" than a allegeritta. This car turned out to be the third Alfa Romeo of the Swedish royal familly. Rumour is that he (the prince) had a crash with it as well. Bonniers Bilbolag (Bonniers Carcompany) is .... The race driver Joakim Bonnier was trading in cars before his racing career started of for real in 1954. In the winter 1953-54 he acquiered a company called AB Imperia who was the then agent for Alfa Romeo in Sweden. Bonniers bilbolag was then until around 1957-58 the official Alfa Romeo agent for Sweden, After him the agent was a company called Gyestvagns.
I guess that the Bonniers Bilbolag is on the old swedish registration forms, would you like to have them translated ?`
RGDS
Björn in Sweden
|
01-09-2007, 01:12 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by africk
Superleggera, the Bertone number on 4067 is *77393*. As you say, the car is quite original and unmolested, it still shows 20,000 miles. The car has aluminum openings, plexi sliding windows, rear seat delete, lightweight front seats. It ALSO has steel bumpers and eyebrows, glove box lid, dash covered in fabric, cigarette lighter, and unusual triming around the front seats. So is it a confortavole with aluminum and plexi, or a lightwieght with additional trim? I suspect the latter, because if you know the car, you also know the first owner was one of your country's royalty. Supposedly the car was ordered in a higher state of trim. I've got a question for you, who was Bonniers Bilakbiebolac of Stockholm?
Martin, I tend to agree with you as for the SVA count, and the fact that all 56/57 (before september) sprint veloces were lightweights but for the odd exception. All the variations on these old cars are fun and keep the anoraks guessing.
|
Last edited by dretceterini; 01-09-2007 at 01:15 PM.
|
01-09-2007, 11:04 PM
|
 |
Registered Driver
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Berkeley, California
Posts: 115
|
|
|
To Martin:
My 'SVC' is 1493E*06559, Bertone # 655948*A*; in the Giuliettaletta, Richard Hampton's similar car has a firewall photo showing 1493E*06544 and Bertone # 655933*A*. I expect a similar number from the Dave Struss Confortevole 1493E*06552 in the 'letta issue 85, which clearly shows the top firewall ledge of the cars (UP TO 06611) on page 8, after which the body changed as "il sistema di lavorazione artigianale e con l'apporto dei sub fornitori fino all'aprile del 1958..." gave way to steel stampings and 'Modern production methods'.
To 'dretceterini' Stuart:
A further description of the Confortevole is on page 33 of Giancarlo Catarsi's "Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint" published, like Anselmi, by NADA. It parrots the September 1957 press release 'Confortevole' intro material. Also see 'letta #58 and the Autoclassiche Giulietta issue.
I respect the fact that we agree about Alfa history probably on most things, including our regard for what 06611 represents. I appreciate your willingness to share and to answer questions. The hobby (passion!) benefits all by helping a mutual elevation in learning, unlike trial law where any misstep causes all testimony to be suspect and learning is second to winning.
Cheers,
Laurence
|
01-10-2007, 05:19 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superleggera
africk, I suppose you are the owner of 4067. Congratulations to a nice car.
The first owner Prince Wilhelm Of Sweden was over 60 years old when he bought 4067 so he might have been looking for something more "comfortable" than a allegeritta. This car turned out to be the third Alfa Romeo of the Swedish royal familly. Rumour is that he (the prince) had a crash with it as well. Bonniers Bilbolag (Bonniers Carcompany) is .... The race driver Joakim Bonnier was trading in cars before his racing career started of for real in 1954. In the winter 1953-54 he acquiered a company called AB Imperia who was the then agent for Alfa Romeo in Sweden. Bonniers bilbolag was then until around 1957-58 the official Alfa Romeo agent for Sweden, After him the agent was a company called Gyestvagns.
I guess that the Bonniers Bilbolag is on the old swedish registration forms, would you like to have them translated ?`
RGDS
Björn in Sweden
|
Dr. E, My car is an exception and there are quite a few others I'm sure. Would it not be correct to then say, most SVs built BEFORE Sept. '57 are probably lightweights? I guess I'm being a little obstinate because I had posed this question to Elvira Ruocco and she simply told me ALL 56 and 57 SVs are lightweights.
Best,
Alan in Pasadena
|
01-10-2007, 07:39 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 72
|
|
|
Alan, Thanks. Your welcome with the registration records.
Your car is one out of six 750E veloces sold new in Sweden in 1956/1957 (there are no 1958´s) and then the 59´s I count as 101´s
RGDS
Björn in Sweden
__________________
1952 1900 C Sprint 1959 Giulietta TI (Class winner Rally Monte Carlo 1960)1967 Giulia Super 1970 GT 1300 Junior 2008 159 TI SW
|
01-10-2007, 10:20 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AR58SprintV
To Martin:
My 'SVC' is 1493E*06559, Bertone # 655948*A*; in the Giuliettaletta, Richard Hampton's similar car has a firewall photo showing 1493E*06544 and Bertone # 655933*A*. I expect a similar number from the Dave Struss Confortevole 1493E*06552 in the 'letta issue 85, which clearly shows the top firewall ledge of the cars (UP TO 06611) on page 8, after which the body changed as "il sistema di lavorazione artigianale e con l'apporto dei sub fornitori fino all'aprile del 1958..." gave way to steel stampings and 'Modern production methods'.
To 'dretceterini' Stuart:
A further description of the Confortevole is on page 33 of Giancarlo Catarsi's "Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint" published, like Anselmi, by NADA. It parrots the September 1957 press release 'Confortevole' intro material. Also see 'letta #58 and the Autoclassiche Giulietta issue.
I respect the fact that we agree about Alfa history probably on most things, including our regard for what 06611 represents. I appreciate your willingness to share and to answer questions. The hobby (passion!) benefits all by helping a mutual elevation in learning, unlike trial law where any misstep causes all testimony to be suspect and learning is second to winning.
Cheers,
Laurence
|
As we all know, there are errors in Fusi's Alfa "bible", so I take the information presented in Tabucchi, Anselmi, and Catarsi with a bit of caution. The bottom line is I certainly don't want to turn this discussion into a similar situation as existed with a certain individual; now banned.
Unfortunately, I have never kept a list of the S/Ns of all the Alfas I have owned in my life (around 50), but for some reason, I remember the exact S/Ns of a few cars.
As far as 750 sprints are concerned, I have had 6 in total. Every one had the spider type "football" rear lights which, even on the earliest car, appeared to be original! I can't say with absolute certainty, however, as every car was at least 15 years old when I got it.
Two were normales; one of which was a very early car with column shift, #223 I think. Three were "regular" 750 sprint veloces (all steel), and in the 4000 and 5000 chassis number range. The last one was an interim car with 750 body but 101 motor and split-case trans. This was the only one with the later style firewall and eggcrate grille. All others had eyebrows grilles
As to 750 spiders, I have only had 3; 1 normale, 1 veloce, and one interim car. All but the interim car had the "football" shaped tail lights too.
I have no idea where any of these cars are today, as it has been at least 20 years since I had any of them.
|
01-10-2007, 10:24 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by africk
Bjorn, thanks for the information on my car. You deserve a congradulations for being so knowledgeable on your countryman's Alfas. Discovering these little nuggets of information is like discovering buried treasure. You are absolutely correct as for the car being in an accident, the passenger side front fender show signs of repair. This car is a survivor and I intend to honor the past owner's restraint by not lavishing a complete restoration on the car, but to mechanically restore it and use it occasionally. I might just take you up on a translation. I'm going to dig up the registration forms and see if I can get them in a form to email them.
Dr. E, My car is an exception and there are quite a few others I'm sure. Would it not be correct to then say, most SVs built BEFORE Sept. '57 are probably lightweights? I guess I'm being a little obstinate because I had posed this question to Elvira Ruocco and she simply told me ALL 56 and 57 SVs are lightweights.
Best,
Alan in Pasadena
|
|
01-11-2007, 03:27 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London UK
Posts: 967
|
|
|
Bjorn,
From your knowlegde does Ake Sahlberg still have his lightweight?
__________________
Stuart
'56 Giulietta Spider, '57 Giulietta Spider Veloce, '57 Giulietta Lightweight Sprint Veloce, '60 SZ, '68 GTA, '76 2000 Spider
|
01-11-2007, 05:17 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 5,376
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by africk
I guess I'm being a little obstinate because I had posed this question to Elvira Ruocco and she simply told me ALL 56 and 57 SVs are lightweights.
Best,
Alan in Pasadena
|
|
01-11-2007, 07:37 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 719
|
|
|
FWIW, if it hasn't already been mentioned in the thread, additional lightening measures on the the lightweight sprint veloce were aluminum bumpers, headlight rings, and other trim. This is quite nicely visible on the above pictures when looking at the different quality of the sheen on the trim.
|
01-14-2007, 11:14 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
|
|
|
SVZ fo sale in Belgium
If you're looking for an SVZ please go to www.vdvgrant.be ... |
01-15-2007, 10:02 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 580
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar750veloce
|
|
| |
