The complete SVZ file

[2000 touring sp]

Conrero vas the most prime tuner for Alfa engines, along site with Faschetti and in small part Abarth (Primarily 1900) until the Autodelta came along in 1960/61.
Conrero produced his own chassis. But there isn't mush information about what these tuners really did to the engines. And where the one had its strength compared to others
After Autodelta turned up. Corer concentrated his effort on Renault and Opel

[iicarJohn]

Replying to Monoposto ...

First, a couple of caveats:

License plate research is not enough to go on to be certain of anything, even if the plate on a car at a certain point in time is generally a very good clue as to the car's identity and possible ownership. In certain extreme cases, the presence of an incorrect plate on a car can also lead us in confusing directions, research-wise. There are many cases when a car was sold to a new owner in a new licensing area and yet the old plate was used for some time (and sometimes a number of events) without getting a new plate issued ... which implies that the ownership change was not made official to the licensing authorities. On occasion, ownership changes were not recorded until immediately before the next sale.

Generally, a plate can give a good indication of who owned a car for legal purposes. Such ownership can have legal implications that some owners sought to avoid, so there are cases where actual ownership was not with the named "bureaucratic" owner.

There are other possible permutations and possibilitites for extreme cases but generally a plate does give an indication of which car is being used and sometimes can imply who is using it. Although I am generally comfortable with making reasonable assumptions about a car in use, as implied by a plate, the driver identity is much less certain without both an entry and a result that are in agreement. A good photo, well identified, is even better. Many of these individuals were members of clubs. Some formed looser associations that freely shared the good times they were having. Some were simply friends.

I am reminded of a case in vintage racing where someone looking at an entry list for Seattle International several years ago would assume that a certain owner/driver was racing his own 250 Testa Rossa. The rare 1950's sports-race version. When the rear end failed a few days before the event withoput time to effect a repair, the owner of another 250TR that was in the same shop offered the use of his car. If we were to look at the entry and results alone, we would logically come to a very wrong conclusion about which car was being used. In racing, even as non-serious as "vintage" used to be, this kind of stuff is almost "normal".

So ... on to an incomplete discussion of 02028 ... which will involve discussing incomplete information about other cars as well. Lots more can be learned. It takes time, perseverance, patience, some expense and sometimes some luck. I will share what is known and what can be assumed or guessed. But, one new piece of real information may change one or more of any of the assumptions or guesses. I am not terribly eager to spend the time necessary because, in this case, I am not sure that we are discussing a car with a period Zagato body.

More to follow ... but it will have to be later. I thought this would be simpler, but a quick review of some files indicates that I need to spend some time on this before sharing. Just not enough hours in the day or night!

[iicarJohn]

See posting #300, a photo from Giugno's book, showing the Roma plate issued August, 1957 to *02028. If it is indeed *02028, as we might logically assume despite the caption, then it clearly was not yet bodied by Zagato when it raced on the Targa Florio of 1959. This comes perilously close to the beginning of SZ production and most of the Zagato shapes were already changing/evolving away from the SVZ lines that had come before. So, if the car had been re-bodied by Zagato late in 1959, we might expect it to have a bit of a different shape than the cars that were bodied earlier?

[dretceterini]

Conrero still exists, making speed and styling parts. Their website gives a brief history:

Conrero Official Site

[Monoposto]

John, thank you for your comments. I appreciate that. I'm aware of what you're saying about mixing up cars and numbers in races and generally in history; this was "not uncommon"... to say the least.

As concerning *02028 I'm leaning towards what you're saying: "I am not sure that we are discussing a car with a period Zagato body".

I'm ordering the Giugno book, by the way.

For me, if *02028 is photographed in the 1959 Targa Florio with it's factory body, that would be the missing 'link' to say that this particular car wasn't converted in period, period. I wouldn't even dare to bet on the fact that Zagato did the conversion...!

But: all I know thusfar is the car's first owner. Is the Rome platenumber traceable to *02028 and can we be sure of this (are these facts(?) documented)?

Just some thoughts....

offtopic: do you run a website for your Italian Car Registry? Do you sell books or information or is this a hobby that got out of control?

I'm asking because the amount of information you've got (and are sharing) is amazing.

We were planning on doing an article on the Abarth 207a that's for sale with VDV in Brussels, but then I found an Excel sheet from your files (I believe it was on this website) and found out that this particular car (#002) had a bit of a strange history..

We also thought the SVZ to be a genuine sample... but after the photoshoot in june/july I'm still researching it...

[2000 touring sp]

Here is a copy of the content of the Giulietta Sprint Velose Zagato.The 2028 is nor covered by the book

[dretceterini]

The last copies of the Giugno SVZ book I recieved were numbered in the 170s, so I would suggest that you order a copy ASAP if you want one, either from me if you are in the US or Canada, or from another book dealer if you are not. Only 200 copies were printed. Giugno has not decided (as of today) if he will print more.

[iicarJohn]

Regarding The Italian Car Registry ... Sorry! It is not online except for some of it that was scanned (stolen) and placed on a certain would-be dealer's website to use as a magnet for their less-than-wholesome operation. The signature line "Ask us" or "We know the story" may indicate allusions to information that might actually be learned from them but it is likely that the rest is taken from other sources, including my work ... and ... Yes, the informal registry I began around 1980 in order to learn a bit more about the cars (mostly projects) in my father's collection has gotten more than a bit out of hand ...

SVA *02028, a red car with engine N. 30074 was sold April 1956 to Giorgio Becucci and was registered in Bologna. The plate has been shared earlier in this thread. I did not do the plate research myself and do not have the estratto cronologico (or "visura") that gives additional particulars, but Lorenzo Boscarelli did share back in the 1980's the information that the car went to Roma294xxx which I have determined was probably issued August of 1957. That plate can be seen in posting #300. I have already stated that I prefer not to share specific plate information for cars that are not well described and, because of potential abuse of this kind of information, I will always try to continue to err on the conservative side in this. Because of the Roma plate and the subsequent use by Bettoja (a.k.a. "Pegaso) we might also assume that Bettoja might have been the purchaser. One way to find out would be to go to the Roma PRA (Pubblico Registro Automobilistico), pay the fee and, either the same day or the next, get a visura that should tell us the name of the Roma owner(s). It may also allude to subsequent travels and research that could be done. The same research can be done at other PRA offices as well, but a higher fee has to be paid and then you have to wait a number of days for a response. It has been reported that the PRA offices may be closed sometime soon but I've not heard yet what agency or system would replace them.

In any case, Becucci raced *02028 on the Mille Miglia (race #120) in 1956 and placed 12th overall and 2nd in the GT1300 category. Two photos appears in the Anselmi/Boscarelli's book "Alfa Romeo Giulietta" on pages 154 and 155. Becucci also presumably entered the same car in the 1956 Coppa Inter-Europa (race #21) in September but was not listed among the finishers. Approximately 35 Giulietta were entered but only 23 cars of all types actually started in the GT1300 category and I do not know if Becucci was among the actual starters.

Then, in about August of 1957, the Roma plate was issued to *02028, as mentioned above. It might be pertinent to remind one and all that, after the Mille Miglia tragedy in May of 1957, open road racing in Italy was essentially banned for a time, so the folks who wished to race had to participate in hill climbs, circuit racing and regularity trials for a time. Even the Targa Florio, moved to November, became a regularity rallye, as did the "Mille Miglia" events of 1958 to 1961 although some of these did incorporate speed events. And, although some of the regularity trials were contrived to require racing skills in order to make a checkpoint in time, the wheel-to-wheel thrill was no longer a part of many events.

Bettoja had *01461 that he raced 1956. Don't know how long he had it. Bettoja raced one or more Giulietta cars during 1957 as well but I don't know the identity(ies). Likely possibilities would seem to include *01461, perhaps *02028 and also perhaps *02308? Bettoja acquired *02308 at some point as a used car already registered Roma259xxx. Bettoja had a Zagato body fitted early in 1958 and used it to win his class in a few races during March, April and May. I'd have to check farther to see if it did more. *02308 was sold in 1959 and went to Ancona and then to Napoli, still during 1959.

Evidently, the Roma294xxx plate was used by Bettoja on a Giulietta SV in the 1959 Targa Florio, as shown by the photo published by Giugno and shared in posting #300. Giugno says it had a different chassis number but that may have been an assumption? The Roma plate certainly did not belong on the stated chassis but belonged to *02028. Since *02308 was a Zagato by this time, it is out of contention. To reiterate, if the inference of the Roma plate and its later use by Bettoja ("Pegaso") is to be taken at face value, then there are several events beginning September of 1957 that may have featured participations by "Pegaso" in *02028?

Fast forward to 1987 and I have it noted, from what source I do not recall ... but maybe I can find it one day if it should turn out to be important, that the chassis number *02028 was owned by Tore Stenberg in Sweden. Right now, I do not recall if it was described as "Zagato" at the time. Stenberg's ownership supposedly dated back to 1976 or thereabouts. Then we have reports that the car was supposedly "restored by Zagato" in about 1988 or 1989. I visited with Zagato a couple of times during that time period and my very strong recollection is that Zagato was doing no restorations themselves but referred clients to Galbiati for any "authorized restoration". I also visited with Galbiati during this time and recorded a number of chassis numbers that I saw. I certainly did not get them all, however! I recall seeing a lot of very interesting projects but did not record this chassis number. I should probably check my photos to see what might be in the background of one or more of them.

As of 1993, *02028 was certainly a "Zagato" by this time and the car was with Rinus Belt in NL. Then, in 1994, it was reportedly with "Alberts" but this evidently was a mistaken reference to Jaques Albers?

If the chassis number *02028 is genuinely under a Zagato body today, it remains to be determined when, why and for whom it was done. And I am not assuming that either the "Zagato" moniker or the chassis number are/were apllied historically to the car in question.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[iicarJohn]

I should mention that, in the case of those who had multiple cars at the same time, I believe there were incidents of plate swapping that were perhaps quite innocent mistakes. Not related to Giulietta so far as I know, but there are a couple of cases even of cars that had one plate on the front and another on the rear. Doing research will lead to two different chassis numbers but also generally an overlap of some sort in the ownership/servicing trail.

[2000 touring sp]

Thank you John, for the comment in post 384.
As you have stated earlier. the probably owner of 02028 raced more cars, and could easily have used the wrong plate.
The respect regarding the right plate was not very high. It was a necessary thing to have a registration plate on the car for transport and race on public roads.
If we look at Alfa Romeo behaviour and other workshops. They just picked a plate, regardless weather it belong to the car, or the car was actually Regisrated by official authority, when going to test on public roads, sometimes ever without plates.
So in connection with the rarity and purpose of these cars, you cant only relay on the registration plate.
Witch you also indicate.

[iicarJohn]

Always a possibility. But definitely not "normal" and not to be expected.

[Monoposto]

John,

thank you again!

Rinus Belt & Jacques Albers are correct. We visited Jacques last summer.

From Jacques's information and a Dutch magazine article I can conclude that also the name of Tore Stenberg of Sweden is correct. Owner from the 70's til the end of the 80's.

I don't know if *02028 had a Zagato body at that time! It had last summer.
I also believe (checking that with my photographer) it still has it's original engine.

Thanks for your efforts!
Peter

[Monoposto]

Got it covered! Can be ordered in the Netherlands or directly from mister Giugno (he mailed me yesterday..).

Cheers,
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by dretceterini The last copies of the Giugno SVZ book I recieved were numbered in the 170s, so I would suggest that you order a copy ASAP if you want one, either from me if you are in the US or Canada, or from another book dealer if you are not. Only 200 copies were printed. Giugno has not decided (as of today) if he will print more.

[Skinthin]

Included in the Giuliettaletta Annual 1993-1994 (which my notes say was posted May 20, 1994) is a letter from Tore Stenberg (Hindas, Sweden) requesting membership in the Register and briefly describing his ownership of #02028: "I am also the owner of an AR Sprint Veloce Zagato with chassis no. 02028......I bought this car in 1987 from Switzerland and, according to the previous owner it was completely rebuilt in Italy during the eighties. Car is in beautiful condition so there is nothing to deny this fact with the rebuild. Unfortunately the Swiss owner had a nasty accident just when we had started to trace the history of the car. I hope he has now recovered so we can start the detective work again. I hope this may be of interest..."
Accompanying the letter is a photo of a definitive '58 style SVZ in a dark color with wipers that lie atop one another and small rectangular sliding cutouts in the door windows. The car has plate number NHG 626.
Stenberg's telephone number appeared in the Giulietta Register's membership list which followed shortly after.
Perhaps this communication is what John De B remembers about #02028 in the mid 1980s. I am sending him a copy of the Giuliettaletta Annual pages.
And as to 2000 touring sp's post #381 that #02028 is not listed in the new Giugno SVZ book, neither is #E08780.
Adrian Smits thought that based on what Consten said about replacing the body on his car with a new one in early 1959 (why?), and #E08780's arrival at that time, that #E08780 might have been the recipient of the old body. #E08780 was off white from the factory, and under the black on the firewall today shows some spots of light blue ("celeste?") which is close to the color of Consten's car.
But when a Zagato body is changed, what is included? The firewall?!
#E8780 sports a few unique features in its patina-laden condition, including remnants of an under-chassis pan (like the TZs had), an unusual dash rear view mirror, map light, long-stemed switch to flash the headlights and a front headliner cutout for perhaps a switch or a lever of some sort.
Those, with the firewall color, may be the ingredients I need. I better get to work. Where are those early owners? Who replaced the graceful rounded rear with a vertical panel?! Did he get the one or two miles per hour he was seeking?
Thanks.
Richard Ballantine
Colorado
#E8780

[AlfaRonny]

You can also order the book at AutoNet carbooks magazines dvd's at autonetcarbooks.com
There are still a few examples available.
It's a great shop where you can find almost everything that's ever been published.
If it's in english, italian, german, french..., no problem you can order it.
Here's the link to the On-Line Shop: AutoNet carbooks
They do deliver to the US (and other countries of course)