The complete SVZ file

[iicarJohn]

That is a very interesting photo. I did have a look and it has been sticking in my mind but I don't have an answer yet. Just guesses. The Torino plate appears as if it might belong to 01849 but another slightly earlier car (017xx) had a very similar Torino plate and perhaps she used that car on the MM? Perhaps the nose was extended and then restored for some reason? Perhaps she simply used her normal Torino plate off 01849 on yet another car? Can you read the plate with certainty in the original photo? If so, that might all but eliminate the 017xx chassis number possibility.

[curami]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iicarJohn That is a very interesting photo. I did have a look and it has been sticking in my mind but I don't have an answer yet. Just guesses. The Torino plate appears as if it might belong to 01849 but another slightly earlier car (017xx) had a very similar Torino plate and perhaps she used that car on the MM? Perhaps the nose was extended and then restored for some reason? Perhaps she simply used her normal Torino plate off 01849 on yet another car? Can you read the plate with certainty in the original photo? If so, that might all but eliminate the 017xx chassis number possibility.

[iicarJohn]

Thanks for the enlargement. That pretty much eliminates the other Torino plate that would looks almost identical in photos. In the photo in your posting #297, there are what appear to be fasteners that could be affixing the nose extension. Although we can acknowledge the possibility of the use of her license plate another car, it seems most likely that the car, 01849, was given an extended nose that was largely bolt-on. Reason? Dunno! = Non lo so!

[iicarJohn]

Founded 1947 with 19 members, hence the name.

Here is a scan of the decal of the club when it was reconstituted in 1988. I think it is the same as the decal that was used earlier.

[iicarJohn]

I don't have the original, but I made an imperfect photocopy. Unfortunately, the magazine did not fit entirely on the copier so some images are chopped. For example, this one does not show all of Ada's SVZ (01849) but the original showed race #170, meaning it was likely taken at the 1958 Coppa Sant'Ambroeus, discussed at length earlier in this thread. There is the possible confusion that Miro Toselli also seems to be standing in front of another SVZ at the same event, but it is not his car. #165 is that of Francesco De Leonibus.

[iicarJohn]

I am aware of two annuals published by the racing Club 19 in 1960. The first, early in the year, covers the 1959 events and the second, late in the year, covers the 1960 season. Inside, there are compendia for the team drivers that list successes and some non-successes as well. But, I have found other references to events that are missing from the compendia, so the very helpful references cannot be considered 100% complete.

Here are two pages from the early volume, almost certainly showing photos from 1959. The second page (page 11) carries the caption for page 10.
Note the Giulietta berlina "Preparazione Almo Bosato" at the Bolzano-Mendola hillclimb.

[iicarJohn]

The latter 1960 compilation, showing 1960.

[curami]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iicarJohn Thanks for the enlargement. That pretty much eliminates the other Torino plate that would looks almost identical in photos. In the photo in your posting #297, there are what appear to be fasteners that could be affixing the nose extension. Although we can acknowledge the possibility of the use of her license plate another car, it seems most likely that the car, 01849, was given an extended nose that was largely bolt-on. Reason? Dunno! = Non lo so!

[iicarJohn]

Another four-five hours of checking various references and I have filled in a lot more data and most of the dates that were missing. I will repost the listing shortly and it will serve as a new beginning. There will be more to do, so never fear!

John

[iicarJohn]

Just had a look in Pino Fondi's nice book on the Targa Florio and in the quite thorough appendix of results compiled by Gianni Cancellieri and Giorgio Spallarosa (with input from others including Curami) there is a note that, in 1959, there is the additional confusion of a listing for "Ivanohe" = Pietro Laureati who shared a Giulietta SV with Ivo Pompei and finished 16th o/a. I also had a look in Janos L. Wimpffen's amazingly excellent (although not perfect) "Time and Two Seats" and he lists "Ivanhoe" as being a racing pseudonym for Pietro Laureati. So, now I think we have to keep track of "Ivanhoe Avorio" and simply "Ivanhoe" with the possibility of "Ivanoe" or "Ivanohe" being used on occasion in error because maybe I am not the only one who gets confused or simply mis-types on occasion?

Anyone else have any thoughts on "Ivanho"?

[AR58SprintV]

Dear iicarJohn,
Your MS word files on Ada Pace printed perfectly! Thanks,
Laurence

[iicarJohn]

It rained a lot today here and I didn't do what I should have done anyway. I went through a number of books and added lots of detail and corrected some bits as well. Here's an update. The second one will be removed shortly, as was the first. If you want to keep track of the changes, you might want to do a right-click and save?

Revision 1 had approximately 7 views, I think, before it was superceded by Revision 2.
Revision 2 had 20 views when removed ... but one of those was mine.

Message repeat from earlier ... as it has been removed:

With thanks to Emanuele Carli, Gianni Marin, Andrea Curami and Richard Springett.

This is an MS-Word document and can best be viewed with MS-Word. Sorry to those who are not able to view it nicely. I've just opened the document with a computer that does not have MS-Word installed and pretty much all the formatting is lost, making it not at all easy to read. I suppose I should generate PDF files in the future?

[martinue]

I have now redone the the new SVZ book. Gino Giugno lists 16 of the 18 cars mentioned in the Veloce book: 14 for sure (*01849*, *01944*, *02158*, *02289*, *02308*, *02348*, *03249*, *03907*, *04249*, *04458*, *04657*, *04717*, *04718*, *06184*), 2 perhaps (the ex Gorza *01613/04069*, and the ex Schild, *02488* to my files). The two unknown could be *02028* and *08780* to my files

Not mentioned is *01521*, *03613*, *03699*, *04045*, *05114*, *05684*, *06936*, *09403* and the SVS *01819*

The SVZ book has many photos, but some of them are already known from the Giulietta-Targa book. It also shows some period ACI papers copied, but because of the poor print quality it is not always easy to read them correctly. Text and list of race entries are not exhaustive, some show wrong dates. The history of the cars ends in the early 1960s, only for Rajesh' *04249* there are newer photos (from 1999). The last pages show some pics of existing cars (mostly from GiuliettaLetta), but without any comment nor VIN. All in all, it contains a lot of information for the interested, and its price is acceptable.

Short updated history:
SVA/SVZ *01613/04069*: just like in his Giulietta-Targa book, Giugno states *01613* for the Egidio Gorza SVZ; 1956/1957 with Gorza (note: Giugno states there was no reg number on the car, but he had listed "FO 31763" for the 1957 Giro di Sicilia entry in his earlier Targa book); 1958-1960 with Mario Bongiasca; 1962 Herbert Wrobel had SVZ *04069*

SVA/SVZ *01849*: 1956-1959 with Ada Pace, possibly destroyed (note: the 1957 Coppa Intereuropa shows with #43 Aristide Molteni, who later modified the complete front, it was MI registered and possibly is SVA *02098*. Pace had #42 and is in the 6th row with standard nose, it does note look like it had its roof mounted wiper, same as in the 1957 Targa Florio, but in its last race, the 1958 Rallye Sestrière, the wiper is there again)

SVA/SVZ *01944*: 1956-1957 with Massimo Leto di Priolo; 1958-1960 with Giorgio Ubezzi; 1960-1961 with Attilio Broletto; 1961 sold to Valentino Urbani

SVA/SVZ *02028*: no confirmation, but is it the Belgian 1959/1960 Nuerburgring 1000kms' car?

SVA/SVZ *02158*: 1956-1958 with Carlo Maria Abate (note the Sestrière photo in post #328, No. 66 is not Ubezzi!); 1958-1959 with José Rosinski; 1959-1960 with Rey

SVA/SVZ *02289*: 1956-1958 with Giorgio Suvero; 1958 with Miro Toselli; 1958-1959 with Francesco De Leonibus (note: the 1958 Coppa Sant' Ambroeus photo with No. 165 shows Miro Toselli alongside with De Leonibus' car, it seems to be the first event for the new owner, and Toselli is not wearing racing clothes; the overall results list the fastest of all races together that day. De Leonibus is named Francesco Paolo according to Giugno, but I have only seen Francesco in the late 1950s and Paolo in the late 1960s/early 1970s, driving GTA and GTAm)

SVA/SVZ *02308*: 1956-1958 with Srl Tupini Candida, raced by Pegaso Bettoja; 1958-1959 Giuseppino Giordanello; 1959-1962 with Srl Edilizia, reregistered; 1962 with Carlo Fiorelli

SVA/SVZ *02348*: 1956 sold to Switzerland; 1958-1959 with Edgar Berney; 1959/1960-1961 with Theo Geither; 1963 with Fritz Esser; in the mid 1970s found by Egbert Waskowitz

SVA/SVZ *02488*: 1957-1958 with Jean-Pierre Schild (*02488*?); 1987-1997 with Peter Kaus; 1997 sold at the Masoero Auction

SVA/SVZ *03249*: 1957 with Ennio Malinverni; 1957-1958 with Ditta Racing Sport Srl, maintained by Virgilio Conrero, destroyed at Le Mans

SVA/SVZ *03907*: 1957-1960 with Kim Pedretti; 1960-1961 with Vincenzo Avorio; 1961-1962 with Paolo Datti

SVA/SVZ *04249*: 1957-1958 with Mario Angioli; 1958-1959 with Silvano Bernabei, raced by "Lucky" (Battistoli?); 1959 with Clara Barbato, raced by Dario Sepe (note: Dario Sepe already raced in 1958 a Giulietta, but I do not believe it was SVZ *04249* since Bernabei was from Roma, and both Barbato/Sepe were Neapolitano; 1960 raced by Silvio Mandato (note: the book lists Sepe for the 19590927 Catania-Etna with No. 312, but Mandato was there and finished 2cl, Sepe is not listed with *04249* after this); 1961 sold to Renetto Venneli, General Manager of Alitalia Airlines India, Bombay (note: Renato Valli, Italian ambassador at Bombay, according to Giugno)

SVA/SVZ *04458*: 1957-1960 with Sergio Cannara; 1960 with Clelia Rossi, raced by Ferdinando Natella; 1960 sold; 1960 raced by Antonio Covino (note: 19610815 GP Pescara/Testa Rossa 4h with No. 96 was a Natella entry, SVZ *04458* according to Giugno?)

SVA/SVZ *04657*: 1957 Auto König; 1957-1959 Auto Wax, raced by Herbert Schultze; 1959 Herbert Schultze; 1959-1961 Bernd Degener; 1961-1962 Ernst Gertsch; 1962-1964 Wolfgang Steidle; since the mid 1970s with Hans Rammensee

SVA/SVZ *04717*: 1958 GAP, Paris; 1958-1959 Bernard Consten/Jean Hébert 50/50; body transfered to SVII *08780*?

SVA/SVZ/SVM *04718*: 1957-1961(?) with Tony Mognaschi (note: Mognaschi from Genova raced a SVA registered "GE 91196" in 1957/1958, in 1959 SVZ *04718* registered in Imperia (IM 17369), and in 1960 a SVA with eggcrate grille, that went to Giorgio Zacchetti for 1961, in mid 1960 he received his SZ *00007*, so I do not believe every entry that is mentioned for *04718*); 1961 with Virgilio Conrero; 1962-1963 raced by F. Susinno (note: Susinno is named Filippo twice in 1962 Auto Italiana magazines, whereas the Giugno book and the known Targa Florio entry lists on the www write "Francesco"); 1964 raced by Vito Sabbia/Gaetano Spampinato; 1969-1970 with Santo Sorbello

SVC/SVZ *06184*: 1958 with Pasquale Tacci (note: 1958 Targa Florio, a SVC, it has sliding windows, but the heavier bumpers, headlight rims, and some chrome trim were removed); 1958-1961 Baldassare Taormina; 1961 Renato Fiore

[dretceterini]

Any idea where #01819, the Scaglietti car was last seen, and if it still exists?

Thanks for the Racing #19 badge posting!!

[iicarJohn]

Anyone who has read a certain couple of my postings knows that i believe it to be irresponsible to publish period Italian license plates for cars that are not currently known or very well described as to their demise. So, I will not share all that I think I know in a public forum. But, it can also be a mistake to use license plate information as definitive proof of anything. Plates have been known to migrate from one car to another for certain events. I'm not saying this happened with any SVZ, but it is always good to keep in mind that a plate on a car needs to be accompanied by other corroborating evidence before it can be considered much more than very strong circumstantial evidence.

That said:

Egidio Gorza owned the SVA *01613 from new in 1956. He used it to win the 1956 Italian GT1300 championship and was Campione della Montagna in the category as well. But the car was sold and re-registered in Bologna by April of 1957 when the Targa Florio was run so I would think it is extremely unlikely to have been the car used by Gorza on the Targa Flori