TZ2 replica possibilities - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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TZ2 replica possibilities

Greetings,

I have been giving a bit of thought to building a replica of some description and the ultimate for me would be either a 33 Daytona or Stradale coupe - but to achieve that to a very high standard is going to be extremely costly. The chances of actually locating a Montreal engine are pretty slim (let alone a genuine flat plane crank Autodelta V8) and a Colotti gearbox. Googling around I found references to 2 or 3 outfits that are building replicas no doubt with varying degrees of quality.

I came to the conclusion that a TZ2 coupe would actually be a bit (at least) easier to recreate. My idea here is to build a close interpretation with minor modern comforts using mostly fairly easy to get parts. Another reason is the similarity of the layout compared to clubmans/locost kit cars that are very popular. Apparently accurate CAD designs of the TZ2 are publicly available, although I'm yet to view a copy - if anyone has DXF files, please get in touch. NOTAR Cars claim to be making replicas to a high standard although their website has not been updated since 2005. Does anyone know if they are still in operation?

My aim is not to build an exact copy - but a replica that can be used and registered on the road and possible used for occasional track sessions.

Here is a summary of my ideas for a TZ2 replica:
- tubular space frame based 99% on the original car but with increased tubing wall thickness to increase strength of chassis
- utilise Alfa 75 twin spark engine, 105 series gearbox, steering column and possibly 105 series live axle - I would like to consider an independent set up with inboard brakes however I can't think of any readily available options for this - perhaps Fiat 130/131?
- the twin spark engine would be standard to get the car through inspection/registration
- utilise a modern AC kit as the car would no doubt be a bit of a greenhouse and I live in a hot climate (South Australia)
- fibre glass body - my Alfa history book collection indicates that the first TZ2 was constructed in alloy and subsequent cars were made in fibre glass using a moulds from the original prototype, so a fibre glass body is not technically "inaccurate". That said, I'm not put off on the idea of creating a hand formed aluminium body.

If someone already has body moulds and is willing to sell a complete shell then at least some of the hard work has been done. Other concerns include:
- windscreen / rear screen - are recreations available?
- wheels? Does anyone make replicas of the original wheels? I believe at least one TZ2 had larger wheel arches and was fitted with Tipo 33 type wheels too.
- suspension - this will probably be custom made to suit the chassis. Spring rates and shock absorbers will need to be carefully considered.
- internal and external trim
- instruments, lighting - lenses and fittings for various Italian brands seem to be still available if one searches hard enough (Carello, Siem, Jaeger etc)
- seats - I have found a classic car seat manufacture that builds something similar to what I've seen in the TZ2

The more I look into it the more complex the project seems, however I have a couple of aces up my sleeve - I'm technically skilled and already have multiple cars under restoration and can use CAD applications with FEA to analyse stresses and loads on the mechanical components. I also have access to a professional car builder's shop with over 30 years experience with the engineering and compliance of custom vehicles (mostly clubmans).

Comments/criticism welcome

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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 07:35 PM
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TZ replica

Don Ereminas in Torrington, CT had a TZ replica he was developing. I heard he closed the parts business but was continuing with the TZ work, but that was several years ago or more.

I found a photo here, sixth photo in the top thumbnails:
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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 10:24 PM
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Hi mate, an interesting set of ideas and not with out merit, albeit it would be a difficult journey.

However, just to help you along a little bit, over on the Aus Alfa Romeo Owners Forum, there is actually today a story about someone who is building up (I think) from scratch a tipo 33 stradale. No idea about the mechanicals but the pics show the bodywork to be very well executed.

I am pretty sure also that the are a number of replica TZ2s out there, but how exactly made, the specs I don't know. I do recall seeing some threads either here on the BB or on the Aus forum re this. I have a feeling (could well be wrong), that there is one in Victoria.

Re engine choice, I would have thought best options would either be a twinnie or a 105 engine. The Fiat 130 is a V6 and I would suspect would be far too heavy. It is also very wide and a large motor. The 131 (early ones were 1600 pushrod, so nothing very exciting, while later versions used the classic Lambredi twin cam that was fitted to the 124 sport, spider, 124 Special T, 125, 132, Argenta. And later was slightly modified for inclusion in the Lancia Betas etc. An excellent motor but has no Alfa heritage.

I think in terms of engineering, the design of the chassis would be critical, that is both getting the correct dimensions, let alone geometry right. As far as the bodyshell goes, I would imagine, that with access to CAD etc that would help, but better still is being able to benchmak against a real car, for all the correct details. You might like to get in touch with someone like Phil Nash in the Vic AROCA, as he might be able to help you re your ideas. Afterall I think he has a TZ2 ?????

Good luck, anything is possible if you are keen to give it a go. There is a guy down here in Hobart who over the past year or two has built from scratch a Mercedes 1930s period racing car (can't recall the specific model) but the engineering, the bodywork etc is truely awesome. It runs a Jag V12 motor.

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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 04:37 AM
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all the best to you! Can't wait to see it!
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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 07:27 AM
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Don is still in business, and his ad in the current Alfa Owner states: "Home of the TZ Replica". Some nice images here: Alfa-Romeo Parts

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Originally Posted by 86spider View Post
Don Ereminas in Torrington, CT had a TZ replica he was developing. I heard he closed the parts business but was continuing with the TZ work, but that was several years ago or more...


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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Hi all,

Firstly thanks for all the public and private feedback I've received so far - it seems recreating a TZ2 (and the TZ1) is something many have considered, and a few have taken on this daunting task with varying degrees of success.

With reference to ideas for utilising Fiat components above, I was actually thinking along the lines of just the rear differential and suspension components, not the engine, transmission etc from the Fiat 131 or 130 etc. I would like to utilise as many parts as possible. In one instance, someone converted a standard 105 series rear axle to an independent set up. Another option would be to utilise the rear differential and suspension set up of the Alfa 6 as it did not have a transaxle like the Alfetta sedans and GTVs.

I have set myself some realistic targets - my "recreation" will not be an exact replica with period correct Autodelta components - a period engine, gearbox, etc is seriously big money. But I do want to get the body shape and the chassis as close to the original as possible including the independent rear suspension with inboard brakes. I have not made a decision as to go with fibre glass or hand beat alloy - both options will be a challenge!

The biggest problem I have is actually getting access to a real car to take measurements from. CAD drawings appear to be available - but are the authors willing to share?

Cheers.
Benjamin

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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-28-2013, 10:40 PM
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Hi!
For rear differential you can use the Alfa Sei parts: it's a normal diff with inboard brakes and can be modified to wfully ork with independent suspension.

Regards, Alvaro.

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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 04:59 AM
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TZ2 Replica

Hi all! My name is Pierre KREBS , I built a TZ2 replica with transaxle gtv6 donor parts , it takes more than 10 years to have the car ready but not finished tha was in 2004, it's a long way to fix everything and to develop and fix handling , power .................. This car is not street legal only for track use , so it was a very long and hard time to built this car and it was very expensive !!!!!!!!!
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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 04:49 PM
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Hi Pierre

That is some awesome looking machine!

I have absolutely no intention of taking on a similar endeavor but I would be fascinated to know more with piccies please....

Congrats Richard
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 08:43 PM
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hello,
i am currently tackling a 33 stradale replicar- i don't have much yet besides the monty engine and a busted-up transaxle but have full prints and engineering know-how. i would love to find someone to build an alloy body on a buck i can provide but if it proves to be too costly i may opt for carbon/glass shell of my own construction. these are not easy undertakings but stick with it mate, in the end it will be worth it!

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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 09:49 PM
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Cool

Interesting idea and hopefully--project.


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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 10:32 PM
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Holy mackeral! That thing is stunning! You aren't just going to tease us with a single picture, are you? Where can we see more?

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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 03:28 AM
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I know a guy up here that is an excellent aluminum fabricator. He specializes in Cobras, but is more than capable of working on most any car. He's done several Bugatis that I know of, one of which won at Pebble Beach a number of years ago.

If you have the buck, maybe he's your guy. Give Glenn a call.

http://www.colourrestoration.com/lon...ation--a-1.asp

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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 08:04 PM
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Do a search on one or these forums ,there was a guy in South Africa who has done body moulds foe 33 steasale
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super1600 View Post
However, just to help you along a little bit, over on the Aus Alfa Romeo Owners Forum, there is actually today a story about someone who is building up (I think) from scratch a tipo 33 stradale. No idea about the mechanicals but the pics show the bodywork to be very well executed.
A company builds them. Contact is Christian Giordanengo ... and he is a member of FerrariChat. Just add $'s ...
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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