Tz-2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:05 AM
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Tz-2

Hello members,

I saw this at the circuit of Assen in The Netherlands.
It looked beautifull and brand new.

Ciao, Olaf
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:00 PM
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Some more

Some more.

Ciao, Olaf
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:45 AM
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More pictures and part of the history

Hello members,

Here are more pictures. I had the opportunity to check the chassisnumber of this TZ-2. The number on the tube was difficult to read but it was there. It states that this is #750104. At home I had a look in my documentation.

Marcello Minerbi in the book 'Alfa Romeo Zagato SZ-TZ' (1985) says about chassisnumber 750104;
'Maybe TZ-2 prototype. Destroyed?'

Ben Hendriks in 'Het Klaverblaadje' issue nr. 60 (december 1992) says about chassisnumber 750104 (English translation by Zagato_Olaf;
'The archives of Alfa Romeo discribe this TZ-2 as a 'test example'. From records, supplied by Carrozzeria Zagato, it turns out that this was the first TZ-2 with a glassfibre body and the second TZ-2 ever built. It is likely that this car was supplied with engine # AD 106 (AD = Autodelta) and had the licenseplate UD-111645. If this is correct, the extra headlights were a later addition. The history of this car is unknown.'

Phillipe Olczyk in the book 'Alfa Romeo TZ (2002) says about chassisnumber 750104;
'2002 TZ2. Alloy with V8 Alfa 33 engine. Found in Brazil.'

More info is on its way

Ciao, Olaf
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Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 09-08-2008 at 05:51 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:50 AM
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More pictures

More pictures.

Ciao, Olaf
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:27 AM
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Stunning isn't it? Hard to believe there weren't more built....but the economics of the time probably killed the business case for it! I bet it cost twice as much to build as it sold for back then.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:20 AM
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Stunning

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1750GT View Post
Stunning isn't it? Hard to believe there weren't more built....but the economics of the time probably killed the business case for it! I bet it cost twice as much to build as it sold for back then.
Hello 1750GT,

Yes, stunning car! Besides the economics Alfa Romeo's shift in attention towards the 1600 GTA will have had it's impact too.

Ciao, Olaf
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:45 PM
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That would top my lottery win wish list!
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:56 PM
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Shot from inside the TZ-1

Shot from inside the TZ-1.

Ciao, Olaf
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:23 AM
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Hi Olaf,

Any pictures of the TZ from outside?
Regards.
Cris.-
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:50 PM
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Pictures of the TZ-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris Bertschi View Post
Hi Olaf,

Any pictures of the TZ from outside?
Regards.
Cris.-
Hello Cris,

Watch the new thread!

Ciao, Olaf
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2008, 06:49 AM
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TZ-2 chassis number 750.104

Hello guys,

I spoke to the very enthousiastic (German) owner at the Spettacollo Sportivo happening in Assen and he said it was chassis 750.104.
He found the chassis about 20 years ago in Sicily. The story was that the car had been used as a recce car for the Targa Florio and was bent during testing. The car/wreck stayed behind and that's where he bought the chassis.

He has been buying original and remanufacturing parts and has built up the car over the last couple of years.
In order to get the originality of the chassis established he was having material analysis done.

A picture of the car is in Tony Adriaansens book Allegerita (no pagenumbers) with the registration UD 111645 and the same photo is used in Marcello Minerbi's SZ et TZ book on page 108.
As conclusive / precise records were clearly not kept by Autodelta and Alfa Romeo the truth must come from other sources.

greetings,

Robin.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robin View Post
As conclusive / precise records were clearly not kept by Autodelta and Alfa Romeo the truth must come from other sources.
I hope that the use of the word "truth" was an excess of enthusiasm of yours. You should be aware, as it is quoted in a post above, that an usual "truth holder" claims to have found 104 in Brazil with a V8 fitted.

But you may not know the number of "wrecked TZs left behind" and miraculously found in recent years... I know even one - from Sicily, mind you - which had been rebodied as a barchetta in the 70s, and was found a few years ago with a TZ body featuring the same extra air intakes, etc. as in the 60s! The only - minor - time injuries were that the air scoops had moved a few inches front or aft on the body. The Sicilian sweet climate helps alot for the conservation of coachwork, and the Saints are very mighty in those countrysides.

As long as no evidence is shown, the Sicilian wreck story has as much weight as the Brazilian one: "aria fritta".
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:38 AM
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TZ-2 chassis number 750.104

Hello GTV2000,

of course you are right.

English is not my mother language and I'm certainly not practised in "lawyers language".

What I meant with the word "truth" is that there are a lot of stories around these cars and chassis regarding originality and race histories etc.. A high por tion of the cars have resurfaced under cloudy conditions and claims have been made for clear replica's and worse.
If Alfa Romeo and Auto Delta would have made a better bookkeeping a lot of these "problems" nowadays would not have been around, although I suspect that they were focussed on the competion side and less on the historical aspects in 40 years time.

Only few SZ, TZ and TZ-2 cars have continuous history and are undisputed and for these cars the same applies as with the Ferrari GTO's, "all 100 cars out of the original 39 survive."

So, yes GTV2000 I fully agree that the truth is something else than a story and for proof of originality it takes a lot more evidence.
In any case the car I saw was very nicely built and the owner was very enthousiastic about it and really using it during the weekend as much as he could. In any case it confirmed my recollection of a TZ that they are much too small for me to be able to sit in them but they still are fantastic cars.

Robin.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:23 AM
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Robin, how true. A friend told of a vintage race several years ago where Zora Arkus-Duntov spoke at the banquet "As you know, Chevrolet only made seven Grand Sport Corvettes, so I am pleased to see that all nine are here this weekend".

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin View Post
Hello GTV2000,

... Only few SZ, TZ and TZ-2 cars have continuous history and are undisputed and for these cars the same applies as with the Ferrari GTO's, "all 100 cars out of the original 39 survive."...

Robin.
Olaf, Regardless of the TZ-2's history, the shape is wondrous to see. Thanks for posting.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:13 AM
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I totally agree that, whatever its real history, the car featured on these pictures looks great. My intention was not to bash it. It is rather safe to assume that the body is 100% new - anyway it doesn't fit the details of what we know as probable 104 (UD111645) - and I haven't seen it "in the metal" (I should write "in the resin" ) From the pictures, it's the only reconstruction that really looks like the real thing, and thus, yes, a fantastic shape and seemingly a high level of craftmanship.

Last edited by gtv2000; 10-15-2008 at 06:16 AM.
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