8C 2.9 412039 - Roumania - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 05-14-2008, 11:32 AM
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8C 2.9 412039 - Roumania

Does anyone know if any more has been heard of this car since Simon Moore published The Immortal 2.9?
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:51 PM
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Wink 412039

In the late 1980's this car was purchased by Terry Cohn from the Romanian dictatorship in their last days. Unfortunately, the dictatorship also sold it to someone else ?, along with a M-B W154 GP car. All told in Classic and Sportscar 1990 or thereabouts. I might have a few details slightly mixed but thats the basic story. Terry then had to fight thru the Swiss court system, and got no M-B, not sure about the Alfa. And the car should still be in Europe somewhere. Someone might remember beter, option 2 can probably look up details tonight.

Cheers
Tim
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TimNuvolari View Post
In the late 1980's this car was purchased by Terry Cohn from the Romanian dictatorship in their last days. Unfortunately, the dictatorship also sold it to someone else ?, along with a M-B W154 GP car. All told in Classic and Sportscar 1990 or thereabouts. I might have a few details slightly mixed but thats the basic story. Terry then had to fight thru the Swiss court system, and got no M-B, not sure about the Alfa. And the car should still be in Europe somewhere. Someone might remember beter, option 2 can probably look up details tonight.

Cheers
Tim
I'd heard that it was rebodied as a '38 MM spider Hope that I'm wrong-I always liked the stealth look of this car- most would think it a Frecca D' Oro or similar.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:10 AM
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Interesting topic indeed

Tim, it would be great if you could remember where you found your infos, I am curious about this article.

Without knowing the content of the article it seems very strange to me that the car should have been in Romania in the 80ies.
Due to the fact that Romania supported Germany in WWII they were treated after the war in the same way the Russians dealed with Germany.
The owner of 412039, King Michael, was from the German Habsburger tribe, that may be an explication why they were connected to the Germans.

The King went into exile to Swizzerland, I think he's still there, but he could just save his life. His Alfas remained in Romania until the Russians took them as reparation.
In the book "Dem Silber auf der Spur" by Nikolai Alexandrow, he names Lew Schugurow as source for the information that 18 cars were brought by train to Russia. Most of them were Auto Union race cars, more interesting were of course two Alfa Romeos: a 8C2900C and a 6C2500CC.
As trophy from war those cars came into ownership of single persons or organisations.

This is why I am sceptic when I read that the 2.9 should have remained in Romania all the years.
And btw, there was no other 2.9 around to bring to Russia
But we know that there were also missed Auto Union cars that survived and even came through the iron curtain, so there is still hope that 039 will turn up

Best regards
Ciao Carlo
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:14 AM
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I forgot to add this photo that is said to be taken in Russia 1962.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:56 PM
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Hi

Hi

Didnt get a chance last night, but sometime over the weekend will defintely find info and report all on Tuesday. That was the story, always possible the Romanians sold something they no longer had

Cheers
Tim
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:44 AM
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The 8C 2.9 412039 survived well in Romainia up to the eighties. In the Swedish magazine Autohistorica from late 80- or early 90-ies (haven´t got the magazine here) there is an article by swedish autohistorican Peter Haventon who travelled to Bucharest and saw the car. The article includes a lot of pictures of the car incl chassis number. The Car was in a good state with clear marks of a long life behind the iron curtain and a cat residing in the car. It was actually fitted with an 6c2300 engine just as Simon Moore suspected in his book. What has become of the car I do not know but unconfirmed rumours I´ve heard is that the car went to germany, have been converted to a MM-spider and I think I´ve seen the 6c2300 engine "ex-Romania" beeing up for sale in germany.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by carlo View Post
I forgot to add this photo that is said to be taken in Russia 1962.
The car in the picture is not 8C 2.9 412039 it looks mor like an early 6C2500.
I´ve seen the picture before with the reference to Russia.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:39 PM
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412039

Finally had a chance to look up my C & SC mag, and it confirmed the car in Romania 1988/89 was the 8C2900B Coupe. And right at the very end of the article pertaining to the W154 it had "And as for the Alfa, well thats another story for another time". So, could have been vaguer I guess LOL
The car will almost certainly still be somewhere in Europe and if I get a chance I will post the question on Atlas which might get a answer or not ??.
The body on it, I have got a photo but no scanner. Looks more like a late 30's 6C2500 Coupe, probably designed for 4 seats at a guess, and with an awkward sloping rear roof line sort of villa d'este ish....... Other than that fairly standard late 1930's Alfa.
Tim
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:43 PM
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De-rail this post quick

As an aside Carlo, there was an article in a 1992 copy of C & SC while looking for 8C info. that said in early 1992/ late 1991 a very rare 6C2500, valued at 1 mil. had been stolen in Russia, aparently the only 1 in Russia at the time, no details but there you go. Coincidence ??.
And much more exciting aparently there were 2 M-B SSK's still in Russia at that time..............................
Wouldnt it be fascinating if someone did a Simon Moore on some of these relic's.............

Tim
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:33 AM
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Tim, many thanks for your help!
Indeed I missed these articles
Now I will have to find it at ebay.....

Nevertheless I am still amazed that the car was in Romania at the end of the 80ies.
I expect that there is more behind the history of this 2.9 than we expect at the moment. Hard to believe that it stood 45 years in the same spot in Romania. There is no reason why we shouldn't trust Schugurow who wrote that those two Alfas went to Russia after the war.
What happened then with the car needs still to be researched.
We can not exclude the possibility that it went to Russia and later back to Romania, no matter for whatever reason that happened.

Concerning those cars that went to Russia there were already persons who did serious research on the whereabouts of them, BUT mostly on those Auto Union and Mercedes race cars. I am not aware of any Alfa Romeo related research in East Europe.
Hopefully the next edition of the 2.9 book will tell us more...

Quote:
The car in the picture is not 8C 2.9 412039 it looks mor like an early 6C2500.
I´ve seen the picture before with the reference to Russia
Of course you're right! I forgot to mention this in my post.
This photo is indeed quite well known, maybe there is a certain relation to the article Tim found about the stolen Alfa in Russia. This could be the car on the photo above, although the value of 1 mil seems to be a little bit overrated

Best regards
Ciao Carlo
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:30 PM
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Carlo

Hi

As to the $1 million dollar Alfa., sounds like an austin powers re-run, you are completely right, it sounds like way too much, by 1992 classic car values had crashed to in some cases 20 % of what they were worth in 1990. A lot of cars got wrapped up in insurance scams of one sort or another. It paid to have the car stolen/ destroyed and collect the insurance than to sell it.
Look at Lord Brockett and others.

Secondly, you mention research into German GP cars in the pre war period, what sort of books might have this research, any suggestions ?.

Cheers
Tim
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:00 PM
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I recently read something about a alfa in russia on a history forum on ww2, pictures were included, but i cant remember the site possibly axis history forum. Some heavy googling should bring up something.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:17 AM
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412039

Enclosed you´ll find the pictures from Autohistorica 3-1998 of 412039. Pictures are taken in Bucharest in 1987. Note the chassis no, the registration plates are the same as on the older pictures of this car in Simon Moores book (The imortal 2.9), the gearbox in unit with the backaxle and of course the cat who streches out on the hood. No doubt who is the owner of that car.
Björn In Sweden
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:26 AM
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Thanks for this article. Great photos.
Would you care to tranlate the text for us?
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