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Old 04-28-2008, 11:47 AM
Cris Bertschi Cris Bertschi is offline
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6C 1750 GS s/n 8513011

The Worldwide Group will be offering for sale a 4th Series Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 GS Zagato Spider in their next auction in Houston on 3rd. May.

Please find the description in their website below.
Highlight: "While photographic history indicates it to be correct, there are no specific log papers or racing data available at this time to guarantee such results. Please consider this in your overall evaluation of the lot."

Any information on this car?
Thank you very much in advance.
Regards.
Cris.-

1930 ALFA ROMEO 6C 1750 SERIES IV GRAND SPORT SPYDER HOUSTON CLASSIC 2008

LOT NUMBER: 77
ESTIMATE: $1,150,000 - $1,350,000
CHASSIS NO: 8513011

102hp 1,752 cc dual overhead camshaft supercharged inline six-cylinder engine, four-speed manual transmission, live axle suspension with semi-elliptical leaf springs and friction shock absorbers, 4-wheel mechanical drum brakes, righthand drive; wheelbase: 114"

Development of the 6C Alfa Romeo began in 1924 when Alfa's new chief engineer, Vittorio Jano, turned his attention from design and development of the all-conquering P2 Grand Prix car to a new line of medium capacity light cars for road use. Jano chose the inherently balanced inline six cylinder format, incorporating in his design a rigid seven-main bearing crankshaft and removable cylinder head with both single and dual overhead camshafts driven by a shaft and bevel gears. The light yet strong engine he created, initially displacing 1,487cc. and designated with disarming simplicity 6C 1500, was adaptable to many configurations, from naturally aspirated single overhead camshaft Touring models to twin cam supercharged Super Sports which used a fixed head ("testa fissa") arrangement to withstand high combustion pressures. 

The prototype appeared at the April 1925 Salone dell'Automobile Milano, then at the Paris and London shows. Deliveries began in 1927, the single camshaft Touring models being first but followed shortly thereafter by the twin cam Sport and supercharged Super Sport. Jano's masterpiece was quickly successful in competition, one of its earliest wins coming at the hands of a young Enzo Ferrari at Modena in 1927. 

In 1929 Jano's 6C was increased in displacement to 1,752cc. by increasing both bore and stroke from 62mm x 82mm to 65mm x 88mm, becoming the 6C 1750 which, in its supercharged form, is described as no less an authority as the late Griffith Borgeson as, "... of course ... among the very great sports cars of all time." Offered naturally aspirated with 64hp or supercharged with 85hp, 6C 1750s were even more competitive than the 1500s, particularly supercharged where positive manifold pressure and 6mm more stroke greatly increased the engine's mid-range torque. Mr. Borgeson's high opinion of these cars is borne out by their exceptional racing record including 1-2-3 finishes in the Mille Miglia, Tourist Trophy and Spa 24 Hours in 1930. Nuvolari, Marinoni, Campari and Varzi all recorded successes in Vittorio Jano's "light car" and the model is, quite simply, a legend. 

The Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 Grand Sport 

Among the 6C 1750 series there is a small group of limited production exotic racing cars, the Grand Sports. Built specifically for racing, the Grand Sports deal with the high combustion pressures and temperatures of the exotic fuels and supercharged induction that caused cylinder head gasket failures by employing special cylinder blocks that incorporate the cylinder block and twin cam cylinder head in one (very difficult) casting. Eight main bearings supported the Grand Sports' crankshafts in a reinforced crankcase. The original 1929 Grand Sports reportedly developed 85 brake horsepower. With refinements and developments the 1930 fixed head ("testa fissa") Grand Sports were producing 102 horsepower, making them the most powerful of the entire legendary 6C series. 

The Alfa Romeo Catalogue Raisonné of Sergio Puttini and Luigi Fusi records only twelve of these very special high performance 6C 1750 Grand Sports being built, six in 1929 and six of the more powerful 1930 models. The chassis and engine number series are unique to the Grand Sports and are consistent with the numbers on this car. 

Zagato 

Ugo Zagato followed the apprenticeship path typical of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, learning the coachbuilding trade in Germany before returning to Italy in 1909. During the First World War he worked at Pomilio, a subsidiary of aircraft builder Ansaldo, where he was exposed to both aerodynamic design principals and light alloy construction techniques. He set up his own workshop in Milan in 1919, at first working as a subcontractor to his old employers at Pomilio but eventually beginning to work aluminum bodies for Fiat. 

Alfa Romeo turned to Zagato for coachwork early in Nicola Romeo's ownership, starting with the RL and RM. 

Ugo Zagato was a self-taught designer, like a select few of his contemporaries, who had an innate feel for efficient aerodynamic design. His work with Ansaldo inured in him an appreciation for the importance of light weight. Working through a number of Italian manufacturers, his workshops eventually came to design and build the bodies for the Alfa Romeo 6C 1500 and 1750 which not only helped ensure the models' competition success but also have defined for generations of performance-oriented collectors the essential elements of classical sparse, lightweight two-seat coachwork where form follows function to create singular inherent beauty and functionality. 

It helped that Alfa Romeo gave Zagato a particularly effective, powerful, responsive, efficient chassis upon which to ground his concepts. The collaboration between Alfa Romeo and Zagato on the 6C 1750 Grand Sport Spiders weighed well under 2,000 pounds – by most accounts about 1,850 pounds – in the Fourth Series cars of 1930. With just over 100 brake horsepower their performance was nothing if not lively. Light weight also meant that all the 6C 1750's other attributes – braking, handling, roadholding – were equally lightly stressed and vividly performing. 

In the late Twenties and early Thirties there were no more beautiful, effective, sublimely efficient automobiles than those created by the combination of Ugo Zagato and Alfa Romeo on the 6C 1750 Grand Sport Spider chassis. 

Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 Series IV Grand Sport Zagato Spyder 8513011 

This car was discovered by the current owner in Nancy, France in 1982. 

According to some sources its chassis number indicates that it was a Scuderia Ferrari team car and there is extensive photographic history with the car which purports to show its participation in events such as the 1930, 1932 and 1933 Mille Miglia as well as other events of the period in Italy. Its high performance specification and lightweight, aerodynamically efficient coachwork by the master, Ugo Zagato, would have been eagerly employed by the competitive drivers of the day in the many events in which it would have been competitive, even after the advent of its successor from Alfa Romeo, the 8C 2300. 

Only the eleventh Grand Sport of the series, its restoration was entrusted to the multiple Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance winners at Bob Smith Coachworks with the matching numbers engine rebuilt by noted specialist, Paul Grist in the U.K. 

It has been exhibited twice at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance where it has won its class both times. In 2007 it was selected as Best in Class among the highly competitive and selective participants at The Quail in Carmel Valley, California. Yet even this extraordinary show record only hints at its fabulous presentation. This singular specimen of Alfa Romeo and Zagato lineage is fastidiously maintained and presented in impeccable condition, ready to meet the most stringent standards of cosmetic and mechanical examination by the best-informed judges. It is, simply, spectacular. 

Presented in the Blood Red Rossa Corsa characteristic of Alfa Romeo and Scuderia Ferrari team cars of the period, this Alfa Romeo is all about purpose. Its wire wheels are body color. Its tires are blackwall. It has the Bosch headlamps, dual rear spares recessed into the rear deck, folding one-piece windshield and radiator stoneguard dictated by the requirements of high speed competition and touring in the Thirties, but there is no flash, bling, or flamboyance in its presentation. It is just a lovely, superbly proportioned, streamlined, classic sports spider of the finest quality and refinement which has been restored, prepared and maintained to the highest standards. 

Its only flamboyance is the way it starts, runs and drives with classic Alfa Romeo flair, a combination of brilliant design, light weight, supercharged power and the hum and whir of finely cut gears. 

In addition to its visible equipment it comes with a soft top, reproduction parts book and is equipped with jewel-like Jaeger instruments. 

In fact, the whole 1930 Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 Series IV Grand Sport Zagato Spyder is restored and presented like a jeweler's display. Even a decade and a half after it was restored the quality of the car, the materials and the workmanship lavished upon it in restoration and its continuing maintenance is apparent. 

This is one of the finest automobiles of its era. It needs absolutely nothing, running and driving better than new and able to embarrass many modern cars with its performance, let alone with its sound, style and presence. As a team car with probable three-time Thirties' Mille Miglia history it is eligible for every important and enjoyable event on the planet, a nearly priceless admission ticket to innumerable events around the globe and an automobile of the highest quality that will never fail to bring enjoyment and satisfaction to its owner. 

*note – this description has been revised as of April 10, 2007 from the previous version. Information regarding specific race history and driver history cannot be confirmed at this time. While photographic history indicates it to be correct, there are no specific log papers or racing data available at this time to guarantee such results. Please consider this in your overall evaluation of the lot.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:18 PM
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FYI: Pictures can be found here.

This ad also contains the following text:
Quote:
Two-Time Pebble Beach Best in Class and 2007 Quail Best in Class Award Winner. To be sold at The Worldwide Group’s Houston Classic Auction on May 3, 2008. For information call 866-273-6394 or visit Worldwide Group Auctioneers of Fine Classic Collector Cars.
No affilliation, etc.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:34 PM
Cris Bertschi Cris Bertschi is offline
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Thanks Tubut,

Has anybody seen it "in the flesh"?
Looks quite nice.
Kind regards.
Cris.-
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:20 PM
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Alex Alex is offline
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If it's had work done by Paul Grist, I think that's recommendation enough as to its mechanical integrity.
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:32 PM
Cris Bertschi Cris Bertschi is offline
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Hi Alex, no doubt about the craftsmanship, but it says nothing about its provenance.
Nothing is known before 1982.
Kind regards.
Cris.-
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:16 PM
6c1750ss 6c1750ss is offline
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Is this really a testa fissa car? Worldwide would have you believe that it is on the basis that a)Fixed head engines were only fitted to Gran Sports-(wrong,a few SSs had them fitted as well) b)All GSs were fitted with TF engines(wrong 100s of GSs were fitted with detachable head engines;only a handful got TF engines)and c)TF cars developed 102bhp and so does this one.I don't know whether this is a fixed head car or not but I do know that this is quite an odd way to promote this car.If it is the real thing surely that should be said directly and unequivocally; if it's not all the (incorrect) history about the Testa Fissa cars is irrelevant and misleading.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:41 PM
Cris Bertschi Cris Bertschi is offline
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What is interesting is that John de Boer in his Registry lists 8513011 with engine 8613411.
I got a reply from The Worldwide Group saying that the owner said the car has always been matching numbers since he bought it in 1982.
Any ideas why this number is mentioned?
Mr. de Boer? Are you around?
Regards.
Cris.-
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Old 04-30-2008, 06:33 PM
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Il Vecchio Il Vecchio is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6c1750ss View Post
Is this really a testa fissa car? Worldwide would have you believe that it is on the basis that a)Fixed head engines were only fitted to Gran Sports-(wrong,a few SSs had them fitted as well) b)All GSs were fitted with TF engines(wrong 100s of GSs were fitted with detachable head engines;only a handful got TF engines)and c)TF cars developed 102bhp and so does this one.I don't know whether this is a fixed head car or not but I do know that this is quite an odd way to promote this car.If it is the real thing surely that should be said directly and unequivocally; if it's not all the (incorrect) history about the Testa Fissa cars is irrelevant and misleading.
Great thoughts, all. IMO, if the head and the block are intergral, and if they are original to the car, then it's a Testa Fissa. My understanding was that only about 8-10 cars were Testa Fissa's, and thus most GS's & SS's weren't. No reason why an SS Con Compressore couldn't have been fitted with a Testa Fissa engine...I am VERY sceptical of 102bhp, too!
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:03 PM
6c1750ss 6c1750ss is offline
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I'm not really casting doubts on the car-it may well be a TF for all I know.What irritates me is the Ww sales pitch which ,on the most charitable view possible, is confusing and obtuse.
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Old 05-01-2008, 01:07 AM
jonas jonas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6c1750ss View Post
Is this really a testa fissa car? Worldwide would have you believe that it is on the basis that a)Fixed head engines were only fitted to Gran Sports-(wrong,a few SSs had them fitted as well) b)All GSs were fitted with TF engines(wrong 100s of GSs were fitted with detachable head engines;only a handful got TF engines)and c)TF cars developed 102bhp and so does this one.I don't know whether this is a fixed head car or not but I do know that this is quite an odd way to promote this car.If it is the real thing surely that should be said directly and unequivocally; if it's not all the (incorrect) history about the Testa Fissa cars is irrelevant and misleading.
You capture my own thoughts exactly!
Although having ample experience of the non-TF 1750 GS, I must admit to never having seen a TF engine in the reality. But I do find it strange to find the nuts holding the cylinder head (just as on the non-TF's) in the photos. Surely the TF monobloc was held in place by bolts at the cylinder/monobloc foot alone?
In the description they obviously don't know the difference between 1750 GS and 1750 GSTF, which, in my opinion, is all but impressive.
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:35 AM
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You capture my own thoughts exactly!
Although having ample experience of the non-TF 1750 GS, I must admit to never having seen a TF engine in the reality. But I do find it strange to find the nuts holding the cylinder head (just as on the non-TF's) in the photos. Surely the TF monobloc was held in place by bolts at the cylinder/monobloc foot alone?
In the description they obviously don't know the difference between 1750 GS and 1750 GSTF, which, in my opinion, is all but impressive.
I have grave doubts about this car having a TF engine as is implied by the horsepower rating in the ad - however I do know that at least some TF engines sported welded on head nuts, purportedly to hide the fact that a special version of the engine was used. This is described with some outrage in the the book "Georges Roesch and the Invincible Talbot" - definitely one of the great car books.
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:29 AM
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...however I do know that at least some TF engines sported welded on head nuts, purportedly to hide the fact that a special version of the engine was used...
Yup, I've heard this story, too. Just goes to show that racing folks will be racing folks, whatever the era...
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Old 05-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Cris Bertschi Cris Bertschi is offline
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This car has found a new home.
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