Chassis Numbers for 6C 1750 and 1500

[AlfistaDW]

I am curious as to what happened to the 1929 6C1750 Gran Sport Zagato that Pat Braden owned back in the early 1960s and was mentioned in his Owner's Bible. If anyone has any information, I would appreciate it.

[iicarJohn]

Although Pat had a 6C1750GT (8613363) in a similar time period, his Gran Sport was 8513007. After he sold it, a subsequent owner fitted another 6C1750 engine and the orignal engine was sold off ... back when "matching numbers" and such things were deemed relatively unimportant. The car is now in Illinois and the engine is in Texas.

[ar51matta]

? why is the left front spring covered with aluminium tape and the chassis number in a imho strage place?

[iicarJohn]

Hello "ar51matta".

I presume you are referring to Corrado's photos of 8513092?

Chassis number and various component part number descriptions appear on another thread as well. To synopsize, the chassis number was normally stamped at the right rear of these chassis. There was also a frame number at the left front that can confuse as it is different from the chassis number. Some frame numbers have been removed over the years in order to avoid confusion. In some cases, someone has (often historically) replaced the frame number at the left front with the chassis number or simply added the chassis number as another line adjacent to the frame number. Numerous additional variations have been observed.

I do not know the intent of the tape and/or foil or whatever that was applied but it is possible that the frame number was simply covered to avoid confusions?

Each car is an individual and many had variations during the build process and oftentimes even more "variation" happened during the 60-70 years subsequent to the build. Component numbers (chassis and engine numbers included) can be handy tools to help us describe a car but they are sometimes not enough to allow us to be certain of "who made it and when". Still, I collect as much data about each and every car as possible with the hope that some sense can be made of it all one day. A picture is already emerging ...

John de Boer

[cairos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by damien duigan G'day John, Yes, a truly beautiful example - as was the 8C 2300 Team Car alongside. Any idea how long the current owner has had the car? The last time it crossed my radar was in 2001, passing through Bonhams' Olympia auction in December. Before that, according to the catalogue, in the USA for many years then damaged in a crash and sold to Paul Kunkel in England, for whom it was restored by Paul Grist. Cheers, Damien

[scottmar]

My dad owned this 1750 GS supercharged car in the 60's. I've never forgotten the incredible sound of the supercharger as it howled away. I believe it is chassis # 10814397, a late production car, 32 or 33.
Scott

[Il Vecchio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmar My dad owned this 1750 GS supercharged car in the 60's. I've never forgotten the incredible sound of the supercharger as it howled away. I believe it is chassis # 10814397, a late production car, 32 or 33. Scott

[Alleggerita]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmar My dad owned this 1750 GS supercharged car in the 60's. I've never forgotten the incredible sound of the supercharger as it howled away. I believe it is chassis # 10814397, a late production car, 32 or 33. Scott

[scottmar]

I hadn't remembered the top. I'm not sure my dad ever raised the top, not too pretty that way.
The street we lived on had a mile long straight and it dead ended into a house and then a sharp, about 80 degree right turn. I was about 8 years old and I remember riding in the passenger seat for this often repeated ride and I was always amazed that we would not end up in front yard of that house. The car seemed to miraculously round that turn without body roll. It was quite impressive, along with the sound of the supercharger, exhaust and gear whining.

I now remember that my dad purchased the car from a man named Perry Boswell, who I think did some racing in other cars in New England in the 40's and maybe 50's. I think he paid about $5,000 dollars for the car at that time.
Scott

[iicarJohn]

Hello "scottmar",

Thanks for sharing!

A friend has researched the early history of this chassis number based on an historic photo and the license plate it wore in 1933. The Alfa Romeo 6C1750 N. 10814397 was issued a certificate of origine in November of 1932. It raced the Mille Miglia in 1933 and 1934. It was declared exported from Italy in September of 1934. If it is the same car, it would seem that the fenders (at least) had been changed by the time your father got it. This is not unusual for these kinds of cars.

I would like to add some information to this description, tentatively identified as "10814397".

What is your dad's name?

From the plate, I presume he was in Florida at the time ... even if only part of the time?

When did he purchase the car? (Even if only approximate)

Did he get it directly from Perry Boswell? I have Perry Boswell, Jr. (of Maryland) down in my files as the owner of a Cisitalia 202 in the 1949/1950 time period, but this is the first I've heard of him having owned or raced a 6C1750. The Cisitalia was fitted with an Offy engine by the time it raced very early in 1950!

Did your dad do any work (or have any work done) on the car?

Any knowledge of when the Alfa Romeo was sold? Where and/or to whom?

There will probably be additional questions later.

Thanks.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[scottmar]

John:
Very interesting about the possible Mille Miglia history. My dad always thought the fender skirts were added in GB, along with the chrome bits on the rear fenders, of course.

My dad's name is Carlisle Marshall, (deceased)
He did purchase the car directly from Perry Boswell, and I believe it is the same Perry Boswell that had the offy engined car, as I think I remember some conversation about that.
My father purchased the car in 1964 or 1965, he lived in Lake Worth, Florida
I can't remember when or to whom he sold the car, but I can do a little checking.
I think he had it about 4 or 5 years.
He did no significant work on the car, except I think re-uphostering the seats in the blue leather. The car was painted in the two tone blue when he bought it.
It was maintained by a mechanic named Swen, at German Motors in West Palm Beach, Fl.
If I can find out more, I will gladly post it.
Scott

[damien duigan]

G'day John and Scott,

A few more notes about 10814397 with UK plates WP 4336;

1978 - listed for sale with Dan Margulies of London with styling attributed to Brianza (ref: T&CC 11/78)

1994 - again listed for sale in the UK, now with styling said to be Zagato (ref: C&SC 5/94)

1995 - featured in Sportscar International magazine (Feb issue)

1997 - ran in the MM retro, still in UK ownership

You mention Perry Boswell as a former owner. I believe he also shows up as the former owner of a few interesting cars, not least one of the three Scaglietti bodied Corvettes (probably VIN J59S105458) and the ex-Duke Donaldson Frazer Nash Mille Miglia (s/n 421/100/168), when living in Boca Raton, FL.

Regards,
Damien

[gtv2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by damien duigan 1978 - listed for sale with Dan Margulies of London with styling attributed to Brianza (ref: T&CC 11/78) 1994 - again listed for sale in the UK, now with styling said to be Zagato (ref: C&SC 5/94)

[Ritmo100S]

Interesting that so many 6c1500s and 6c1750s are currently for sale..

[biz5300]

anyone seen the alfa 1750 6c Letournier et Marchand that recently was for sale on italian subito? or did you miss it?

Nik