1961 Alfa Spider Veloce

[AlfistiSA]

Let's see what you can find from the guy in Switzerland ?

Good luck
Ciao
Greig

[61ARproto]

It is had for me to tell what the engine size is. It is supposed to have veloce cams, etc. Richard Stevens supposedly built the motor but is not talking. The transmission has only 4 speeds. The fifth gear placement is there, but no gear. Richard says this is a "special" transmission! Not sure what that means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTD Keith As previously stated, an interesting modified car. You don't state the series or engine size. I suspect what we are viewing is a modified 101 chassis. I'm not interested in guessing how or what has been altered nor in criticizing your car. You bought it therefore you must like the look of it. If your wish is to actually find out what you have bought, please post photos of the engine, underside of hood, trunk and underside of trunk lid; close up pics of the serial numbers in the firewall and on the engine block. My suspicions are aroused by the Bob Corr connection.

[AlfistiSA]

Post a picture of the engine bay & give us the engine number off the block - should be a 5 + 5 or 6 digit number 00106*XXXXX

The prefix could be anything - 00548 / 00109 / 00530 etc, etc - these numbers will tell us what engine is in your car.

The 4 speed & 5 speed split case transmissions are basically identical, small differences from year to year, & either the rear casing does or doesn't contain the 5th gear& shaft. A special box can mean a mixture of ratio's ??

Regards
Greig

[61ARproto]

Greig,
Thanks again,
The motor number is AR 00406*01808*

[AlfistiSA]

Hi Keith

There is no 00406, I'd suggest that it is actually 00106 but either dirty or difficult to read under the carbs

00106 is the correct designation for a Veloce and the motor dates as a '61 Spider (or Sprint) Veloce block - At least this is consistent with the car.

'61 Giulietta Veloce motor: from 00106.01743 to 00106.02897

Regards
Greig

[61ARproto]

Greig,
Forgot to mention. I was supplied a photo of the heads and the block sitting on the work bench at Stephens Alfa. On the warping it states " Stephens Alfa 1979 twin cam". I beleive that the motor is not original to the car, that they installed a different motor, anything that would work, just like the transmission.
Would it be correct to have a 5 speed transmission instead of a 4 speed?
Keith

[Bill S]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61ARproto Greig, Forgot to mention. I was supplied a photo of the heads and the block sitting on the work bench at Stephens Alfa. On the warping it states " Stephens Alfa 1979 twin cam". I beleive that the motor is not original to the car, that they installed a different motor, anything that would work, just like the transmission. Would it be correct to have a 5 speed transmission instead of a 4 speed? Keith

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi Bill,
My late '60 had the split case 4 spd, and as an Alfa kit was available, when I rebuilt it in '66, I made it a 5 spd. As I remember, there was one machine cut I had to make to the case, but other than that, it was all drop in stuff. This was 40 years ago, so I may not remember everything.
Gordon Raymond

[AlfistiSA]

Hi Keith et al

Giuietta's were specced with a 4 speed gearbox as standard - the Sprint Speciale's and the Sprint Zagato's were specced with a 5 speed, The 101 Giulia's were fitted with the 5 speed, (some would have still recieved the 4 speed as Alfa used up old stock) - however this was ALFA & as a customer, you could have whatever your heart desired & your wallet could afford.

The 5 speed upgrade involves installing the 5th gear in the rear housing of the box - Gordon is 100% correct in remembering that you have to machine out the rear casting to make space for the new bearing at the end of the shaft carrying the 5th gear - even then, this is pot luck as some of the rear housings have the recess pre-machined for the bearing race, while others are a blank casting & need to be "hogged' out as someone once quaintly described the process.

If you bought a car off the floor & wanted the 5th gear, the Alfa shop would be able to fit it for you on the premises - but at a cost. With the introduction of the 105 Giulia, the 5th gear was standard & suddenly it became cheap & easy to either swap the complete box, or upgrade the existing box. All my 101 cars have the 5th gear conversion - much happier at highway speeds.

An interesting footnote here is that Alfa supplied a kit to de-convert a 5 speed back to a 4 speed for the TZ's - the kit was basically a spacer & washer type combination & would have been used for hill climbing, to reduce rotational mass in the transmission.

Ciao
Greig
Soggy South Africa - we're in for RAIN today !!!

[tubut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlfistiSA With the introduction of the 105 Giulia, the 5th gear was standard & suddenly it became cheap & easy to either swap the complete box, or upgrade the existing box.

[61ARproto]

Grieg and Ruedi,
Great information on my Alfa. Many thanks to all.
After a very close inspection I have found that indeed the engine numbers are as follows: AR 00106*01808*. The "flag" on the first number one is slightly over stamped and makes it appear to be a "4".
Also, if I read you right, the Alfa could indeed have either a 4 or 5 speed and still be considered correct.

Thanks again,
Keith

[AlfistiSA]

Hi Keith

Dollar to a dime your car left the factory with a 4 speed box, don't worry about the 5th gear, it's the best addition you could actually make to the car & changes nothing visually - in fact if you are not a 100 pointer concourse perfectionist, (anal retentive enough to go back to a 4 speed), sit back, relax & enjoy the ride & the shift to a relaxed overdrive 5th gear like the rest of us.

The 5 speed was available at the time, even listed as an optional for the '58 750 cars, but as I mentioned, it was an option & therefore an on-cost & Alfa's were not cheap, even to afford the basic car was a stretch, thus not many had accessories fitted from new.

So to answer your question - YES, either a 4 speed or 5 speed could theoretically have been fitted when new.

Regards
Greig