Unknown Carrozzeria 6C2500.

[2000 touring sp]

GTV 2000.
If you should be in a position that you can ad any interesting , then I am sure that you could be regarded as helpful, because not everyone was present "elsewhere in other times"

[rap]

The 'mystery' 6c2500 as can be seen in the Benson book is indeed the Riva built car.The history as I know it:
Cattaneo was a hi-po speed boat racer,prewar,using Alfa engines and possibly others as well.This situation evolved into contracts to build Italian assault boats w/marine spec. Alfa 6c2500 engines for the Italian Gov'nt.
Around this time,Gilco was producing spars and other components for boats as well as bicycle frames and other things tubular such as auto chassis. Obviously,a man of Count Laurani's stature and position would have been aquainted with,if not directly associated with these types of concerns.
Post-war these 3 industrialists,guided by Laurani,concieve a plan to produce 50 cars using Gilco chassis and Cattaneo built engines.They started(and ended)with 3 cars.Each had different coachwork but all had the Gilco chassis and presumeably Cattaneo built 6c2500 engines.
Count Laurani retained creative control over one of the chassis.He retained his friend and neighbor,Riva,to construct the unique body based on a simple,casual,hand drawn sketch which Laurani had 'penned'.
This is indeed the car which can be seen in the Anselmi book as well as the Benson book.The photos of the car in the Benson book are of the car after it was brought to the USA and 'Americanized',which included slight body mod's as well as the installation of a Pontiac V-8,etc.
Bob Tucker traded a Maserati engine for the car in the early 1970's,and still owns it today.Bob spent time with Count Laurani at his Villa in St.Maritz in the '80s and aquired the complete history/provenance associated with the car.By all accounts it was a very enjoyable meeting.
The second car to my knowledge is un accounted for.It is considered probable that the third car was not produced.

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rap The 'mystery' 6c2500 as can be seen in the Benson book is indeed the Riva built car.The history as I know it: Cattaneo was a hi-po speed boat racer,prewar,using Alfa engines and possibly others as well.This situation evolved into contracts to build Italian assault boats w/marine spec. Alfa 6c2500 engines for the Italian Gov'nt. Around this time,Gilco was producing spars and other components for boats as well as bicycle frames and other things tubular such as auto chassis. Obviously,a man of Count Laurani's stature and position would have been aquainted with,if not directly associated with these types of concerns. Post-war these 3 industrialists,guided by Laurani,concieve a plan to produce 50 cars using Gilco chassis and Cattaneo built engines.They started(and ended)with 3 cars.Each had different coachwork but all had the Gilco chassis and presumeably Cattaneo built 6c2500 engines. Count Laurani retained creative control over one of the chassis.He retained his friend and neighbor,Riva,to construct the unique body based on a simple,casual,hand drawn sketch which Laurani had 'penned'. This is indeed the car which can be seen in the Anselmi book as well as the Benson book.The photos of the car in the Benson book are of the car after it was brought to the USA and 'Americanized',which included slight body mod's as well as the installation of a Pontiac V-8,etc. Bob Tucker traded a Maserati engine for the car in the early 1970's,and still owns it today.Bob spent time with Count Laurani at his Villa in St.Maritz in the '80s and aquired the complete history/provenance associated with the car.By all accounts it was a very enjoyable meeting. The second car to my knowledge is un accounted for.It is considered probable that the third car was not produced.

[gtv2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp GTV 2000. If you should be in a position that you can ad any interesting , then I am sure that you could be regarded as helpful, because not everyone was present "elsewhere in other times"

[dretceterini]

It appears that RAP who posted above (I don't know who it is) has found some information I am unaware of. It has been 10 years since my major article on Alfa "specials", done along with Peter Marshall, Ken Shaff, Henry Wessells, Ben Hendiks and the help of countless others (I did not know GTV2000 at that time) appeared in Het K, and I am always interested in finding out out anything new, and have no problem with others pointing out mistakes I have made. The same applies to my article on the Discos and 6C3000s that appeared in a number of places; I want mistakes I have made corrected, and want to learn the TRUTH of what actually happened....not just rumors or stories created with some sort of personal agenda..

Thanks,
Stu

[2000 touring sp]

GTV 2000 Thanks.

Re the Riva. If we look at the mystery Bob Tucker one the door ends before the rear fender, where it on the Riva the rear fender ends in the door site. from the pictures to judge it is difficult to say that the Bob Tucker one is the Riva. Should there not be a hidden picture anywhere over there.

Re Gilco there is a history about the Ghia 915-862
"In 1948 Alfa developed the 6C 2500 Competizione, of which only three were built. One of these cars had a more advanced chassis, developed and manufactured by Gilco Milano. Behind the company name of Gilco was the full name of Gilberto Colombo, who designed and manufactured racing Ferrari and Maserati chassis in the 1950s. In 1950 Alfetta gave the order for chassis 64251 to Gilco

to build a special frame to accommodate the 6C running gear.

Meanwhile, on the motor racing competition front, 1950 was an unforgettable season for the Alfa Romeo team, which entered the newly designed type 158 in 11 Grand Prix and won them all, Fangio winning six and Farina five. In 1951 Fangio went on to win the first of his five world championship titles. As a result of this achievement, at the end of the season Alfa Romeo had the Gilco Tubolare chassis rebodied by Ghia and, after displaying it at a concour Milano

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp GTV 2000 Thanks. Re the Riva. If we look at the mystery Bob Tucker one the door ends before the rear fender, where it on the Riva the rear fender ends in the door site. from the pictures to judge it is difficult to say that the Bob Tucker one is the Riva. Should there not be a hidden picture anywhere over there. Re Gilco there is a history about the Ghia 915-862 "In 1948 Alfa developed the 6C 2500 Competizione, of which only three were built. One of these cars had a more advanced chassis, developed and manufactured by Gilco Milano. Behind the company name of Gilco was the full name of Gilberto Colombo, who designed and manufactured racing Ferrari and Maserati chassis in the 1950s. In 1950 Alfetta gave the order for chassis 64251 to Gilco to build a special frame to accommodate the 6C running gear. Meanwhile, on the motor racing competition front, 1950 was an unforgettable season for the Alfa Romeo team, which entered the newly designed type 158 in 11 Grand Prix and won them all, Fangio winning six and Farina five. In 1951 Fangio went on to win the first of his five world championship titles. As a result of this achievement, at the end of the season Alfa Romeo had the Gilco Tubolare chassis rebodied by Ghia and, after displaying it at a concour Milano

[2000 touring sp]

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profi.../Alfa%20Romeo/
Not every thins that is stated in this can hold water. But related to the Competizione, the statement is interesting.

[dretceterini]

Thanks for the link, but in my opinion, many things that appear in the Sports Car Market Letter are either incorrect or misleading

[2000 touring sp]

That's maybe right, at lest there is some in this, that could be better founded. But relating to Gilco ,in my yes. whey did Gilco not build frame to AR , as he vas the foremost used frame builder in this period after WW2. With his tubes of chrome manganese steel he had a very strong tube that compared with the new shapes tubes he used ,gave a rigidity to the chassis they was unable to obtain earlier, and from other tube suppliers .He build almost all the frames for Ferrari-Emeni-Panhard-STANGUELLINI and a lot of others, and Ferrari used him in frames for competition up to the end of the mid 60.
So whey should AR not have tried to benefit from the Gilco tubes. So I se it is an interesting these that he was around the C50 Competizione. But this question is maybe relevant in an other tread

[dretceterini]

I'm very aware of the importance of Gilco. I wonder why there are so few references to them in the Alfa books, yet many to Gilco in Ferrari books.

[2000 touring sp]

Carlo opened at tread on the 081005 regarding car identification
Car identification ,
the pictures I putting in , is literally stolen there from that tread, I did find that icier than to put the info,from this tread about the Riva car, into the other tread, hope to receive forgiveness in my next life .
it was rap´s statement,that make the bell ring, it can happens.

"Post-war these 3 industrialists,guided by Laurani,concieve a plan to produce 50 cars using Gilco chassis and Cattaneo built engines.They started(and ended)with 3 cars.Each had different coachwork but all had the Gilco chassis and presumeably Cattaneo built 6c2500 engines."

If we take it as a fact that there was 3 cars build, and they was designed by the same person, but different, and from this statement ,take a look on the 3 cars/pictures we know of , the Riva as it generally is known, the Carlo Mystery car and the Bob Tucker's car. I think that we can agree that there is very many similarities in the design of these cars.
The Riva car and Carlos mystery , the front air intake and the rear angle of the rear side windows, must have been designed by the same person, or it is copied !. This rear angle of the rear side window we do also find on the Bob Tucker car.
If we then take the side line of Carlos mystery car and compare it with the picture( bad picture and diff. angle but it is the best we have) of Bob Tucker car from Bensons book, I think that the design of the sideline correspond better with Carlos mystery car, than it correspond with the Riva car.
The design of the engine helmet also correspond on the Bob Tucker car and Carlos Mystery car.
Whether we are looking on all 3 diff "Riva" cars I don't know, but it is my opinion that we at lest have 2 different cars,Riva or not.
Wishful thinking, close to Christmas. Should anyone know more on the Bob Tucker car , and wishfully a descent picture that can confirm , or disconfirm, these ideas .

[2000 touring sp]

Another picture of Carlos mystery car

[Boudewijn]

The swiss body maker from Thun, Beutler, made some bodies that look alike the unknown car. Just my two cents......

[2000 touring sp]

Here is the picture from the Buyers Guide of Bob Tuckers Mystery