6c2500 Competitzione and 6c3000-C50

[Hydroglen]

Not knowing who "car John" is, does not help in my reply.

However some points to consider: The people who confirmed the body were Sanesi and Fusi who both very quickly picked out particuliarities that only they would know of. Sanesi was well involved with it;s building and of course crashed it. Fusi was also much involved with it. Correspondence and of course verbal discussions as I usually visited them when in Italy.
Tito Anselmi was also very helpful in research. Tito has always been a fervent crusader against anything that is not legitimate to the point he has become very unpopular with many Italian car clubs as he has shown up many cars to be less than correct. He would certainly not opened doord for me as he did.
And lastly who would build such a car body, attach it to a 1900 sub-frame and do all this back in the 60's when these cars were not worth bothering with?
Once somebody can find acceptable answers to these points and come up with a valid alternative to all of them, it is best to leave the "eye rolling "in a dark room!
I have not seen what has been done to the body/car in recent years so I can't comment on what I have not seen.

All that was ever claimed was it was the first body on 001, and with Sanesi, Fusi and extensive research what else would one do?
More to the point but on another issue it seems that the "other 6C" shown at Pebble Beach, carried a new body. Given that it's original engine went missing in the early 60's how much was real at Pebble Beach?

[iicarJohn]

Here (attached) is an MS-Word document that discusses what is known and tries to acknowledge what has been theorized about 920001, 920002 and 920003 plus a couple of other odds and ends that may or may not tie in to the history of those cars or eventual disposition of some of the parts in some way.

Undocumented information and conjecture has been placed in red ink in most cases in this document. Some claims as to beliefs have been made about the body fitted to 915249 (even though this donor chassis number has not often been acknowledged in recent years) and those are not always marked in red but are described appropriately.

As in the past, I would welcome any documentation to support any claim and am more than willing to revise this listing when more than mere claims are brought to my attention.

Please note that I would love to know that some piece of the "original 920001" still exists in some form, but in more than 25 years of collecting data and listening to various stories, nothing convincing has been related about the source of the body fitted to 915249 that makes it seem more likely to be a piece of "920001" than any other possible donor or creation scenario. I don't believe this is a recent invention at all but it does seem that the claims have gotten stronger over time and nothing has changed fundamentally in the documentation since the discussions first were aired. Every time the subject comes up in a serious way, it seems prudent to review what I think we know and relate that to what has been claimed. That review time is taken from other studies and I don't care to spend any more time on this until something truly new is presented. But, it would also be unfair to leave certain claims in place on this thread without noting that they should be subject to continued research if they are to be verified or perhaps disproven.

Best Regards.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[dretceterini]

Not having ever inspected the car, I can't really add anything....other than I'm 99% certain that one of the cars built (of which I believe that there were 3) became the C50....

[Hydroglen]

Can you explain what is meant by a piece? I think I know, but since you have a different understanding of "documentation" I hope you can share this knowledge with us.

You wrote:

I am sure there are those other than myself who would like to Please note that I would love to know that some piece of the "original 920001" still exists in some form,

[iicarJohn]

"some portion" or perhaps "some remains"

Sorry if I was unclear.

John de Boer

[Hydroglen]

OK, makes no difference.......so what does that mean; "some remains"??

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydroglen OK, makes no difference.......so what does that mean; "some remains"??

[Kay]

Hi,
I'm not too experienced with Alfa Romeo literature. Can anybody tell me what is meant by the following foto sources in John's document (post #32):

1. "foto AR6C2500"
2. "foto LLMM"
3. "foto HK64"
4. "foto MM47-57"
5. "foto AMS"

Background is that I'm searching for any photo of 920002 for a book on the Dovaz collection "Sleeping Beauties". I need the photos and the sources to (try to) clarify the copyrights.

Can anybody help ?

Thanks a lot!
Regards
Kay

[iicarJohn]

Hi Kay,

Those are my own abbreviations, used because I began by keeping notes on 3x5 index cards (75mm x 125mm) and space was limited. As word-processors became available, and then computers, I maintained the abbreviations in my files for two reasons. I am not a quick typist and because data storage and computer memory was not so inexpensive as it is now. To answer your specific query:

AI = Auto Italiana (magazine)

AMS = Auto Moto Sport (magazine) ... if I had to guess, the photocopy I made at Museo dell'Auto - Torino which shows the photo of 920002 probably appeared in May, the month after the event.

AR6C2500 = Alfa Romeo 6C2500, 1993, by Angelo Tito Anselmi

Bertazzini neg. 369 is in my own collection

HK = Het Klaverblaadje (magazine)

L'AA 63/64 - L'Annata Automobilistica 63/64 by Giovanni Lurani & Gianni Marin

LLMM = Le Leggendarie Mille Miglia, 1986, by Alberto Redaelli

LSDMM = La Storia della Mille Miglia, 1979, by Giovanni Lurani

MM1947-57 = la libreria dell'Automobile magazine no. 1, 1997 which was titled "Mille Miglia 1947-1957" on the spine, Giorgio Nada Editore with Sorlini archive, Archivio Corrado Millanta & collezione Andrea Curami

OMM = Mille Miglia, 1990, by Luigi Orsini

PeG = Polvere e Gloria, 2000, by Gianni Cancellieri & Cesare De Agostini

RIAR6C2500 = Registro Internazionale Alfa Romeo 6C2500 (newsletter)

I will post again from another computer with a few sample images that may help you find some of the material. Oh, and I have just located the Siata image that you requested in an unrelated message. I will send it along.

All the best,

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[iicarJohn]

A low-resolution photo of the image should not offend? I hope.

[iicarJohn]

And a promotion for a short-lived magazine that all should aspire to have, not just for the photo of 920002 that is inside.

[iicarJohn]

Mille Miglia 1949, chassis 920002

[carlo]

Quote:

Background is that I'm searching for any photo of 920002 for a book on the Dovaz collection "Sleeping Beauties". I need the photos and the sources to (try to) clarify the copyrights.

[iicarJohn]

Although there is a bit more to the image, nothing has been cropped from the car. I'm sorry to say that the edge of the nose did not quite make it into the image.

[Kay]

@ iiCar John:
Thanks a lot !!! Do you remember to send the Siata pic ?

@ carlo:
Thanks. But no, Hesselmann has only the copyright for his own photos, taken in 1983-85. I'm searching for the copyright on historic photos.