KARS drive/meeting this sat.4/21/09

gt601 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-17-2009, 01:20 PM

KARS members will meet on Saturday, March 21, 2009, at 10:00 A.M. at the Cracker Barrel in Shelbyville, KY. The Cracker Barrel is located on KY-53, just north of I-64, exit 35.

See you there!!

Prolly won't drive and Alfa

But the Zuki has an Alfa sticker on it.

Paul

gt601 · #2 (**permalink**) 03-21-2009, 04:17 AM

Drivin' the 164! Got the engine mount in yesterday and am on my way to clean her up a little bit this am.

Hope to see more folks there.

Paul

fetta78 · #3 (**permalink**) 03-23-2009, 09:18 AM

Well........what did I miss?
I had the kids for a variety of reasons that day and didn't get to make it. I did however help load the Alfetta GT (madmax) on a trailer and it is headed to Tennessee! I have ONE Alfa! First time in 15 years.........

.

gt601 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-23-2009, 09:52 AM

You didn't miss much. It was a nice day but there were only three cars

Our 164,John and marsh in her white Spider and a Ford Explorer.
Nice drive though. It was on good roads and was short. That way you don't blow a whole day.

catsboy · #5 (**permalink**) 03-23-2009, 05:28 PM

I must demand a recount, my chad was hanging! Sorry I missed y'all, but I was at Ft. Knox. The main reason for this post, tho, is to tell you that I am checking my rlkirzinger@gmail.com account more than my insight account these days, so if you could change me in your address book?

gt601 · #6 (**permalink**) 03-24-2009, 04:43 AM

10-4

Paul

Damn did it again....You know that I have no sense of space or time.

AlfaRomeo1750 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-24-2009, 05:11 PM

Hey guys,

I know this is a little off topic but with this being spring break week for me I have had time to play with the 164 and perform a few repairs. Ordinarily I would submit this under the 164 technical forum, but I wanted the advice of the KY contingent who understands best the lack of decent mechanics.

When I hit my brakes, I get a shimmy from the front which I assume is from a warped rotor. I called a few local (Pikeville) shops today who gave me the standard "What kind of car do you have" ... followed by.."What the heck is that".

My question is, is there a good way to see if the rotor is in fact warped without use of special tools. I have never replaced brake rotors on a 164 before and do not relish doing it in my APT parking lot unless I was sure.. also I would hate to buy parts and have it not be the case.

All I know is that the car is relatively smooth while cruising and then feels like a cheap motel vibrating bed when I hit the brakes at speed. The car stops fine with good pedal pressure... it just vibrates the heck out of my spine.

Any suggestions?

Cheers and many thanks!

Martin.

**conedriver** · #8 (**permalink**) 03-24-2009, 05:26 PM

Hi Martin,

What you need is a precision guage to check brake disc run-out. Lacking this, here's something you could try in the parking lot: try removing a tire & wheel and making a really simple guage out of something like coat hanger wire. Wrap and twist the wire firmly around the nearest suspension piece - or on the back of a brake caliper (try to make this as short as possible, and really tight) then direct the end to the outside of the disc surface where the brake pad rubs. Rotate the caliper until the wire just touches the smooth area, then rotate 180 degrees to see if there is any clearance. Admittedly, this isn't the best scheme but you may be able to see if there is any run-out. Also, when you have the car kacked up grab the tire and shake in two planes; side-to-side movement tends to mean worn tie rod ends while top-to-bottom movement tends to indiate loose wheel bearings.

Just remember, this advice comes from someone who used a glass mason jar to evaluate the performance of the fuel return restrictor on a Milano (if you don't know the local use of a mason jar, ask some of the natives)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlfaRomeo1750

Hey guys,

I know this is a little off topic but with this being spring break week for me I have had time to play with the 164 and perform a few repairs. Ordinarily I would submit this under the 164 technical forum, but I wanted the advice of the KY contingent who understands best the lack of decent mechanics.

When I hit my brakes, I get a shimmy from the front which I assume is from a warped rotor. I called a few local (Pikeville) shops today who gave me the standard "What kind of car do you have" ... followed by.."What the heck is that".

My question is, is there a good way to see if the rotor is in fact warped without use of special tools. I have never replaced brake rotors on a 164 before and do not relish doing it in my APT parking lot unless I was sure.. also I would hate to buy parts and have it not be the case.

All I know is that the car is relatively smooth while cruising and then feels like a cheap motel vibrating bed when I hit the brakes at speed. The car stops fine with good pedal pressure... it just vibrates the heck out of my spine.

Any suggestions?

Cheers and many thanks!

Martin.

AlfaRomeo1750 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-24-2009, 05:41 PM

George,

Thank you for the advice. Would there be any other symptoms if either the tie rods or wheel bearings were going bad?

**conedriver** · #10 (**permalink**) 03-24-2009, 07:17 PM

Martin,

I'm not sure. The extreme shimmy you describe might be from brake rotor distortion, or a combination of front suspension / bearing looseness combining to produce the shimmy, or all of the above. my suggestion, which was reversed in sequence, is to shake the (elevated) front wheels at 90 degree angles to see if there is any looseness, then to use crude guage to see if there is any run-out of the front brake rotors. If you can find a sympathetic front end alignment shop with a system that will give you a printout, maybe they would do an alignment & looseness check seperate from any actual repairs.

And... I just re-read your original message. When you push on the brakes and get the shimmy, does the brake pedal pulsate? (this is the classical symtom of a warped disc). No pulsation would indicate a problem other than with brake rotors.

Maybe some of the 164 experts will chime in on the topic. What I am suggesting is that it's better to spend a little money on diagnostics before letting someone throw new parts at the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlfaRomeo1750

George,

Thank you for the advice. Would there be any other symptoms if either the tie rods or wheel bearings were going bad?

AlfaRomeo1750 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-24-2009, 08:29 PM

George,

Thanks again for the suggestion... My next question is... Should I find any looseness in the suspension e.g. wheel bearing is this a "must replace" issue or a tighten up issue. I know with tie-rods its not a big deal to replace those nor are they terribly expensive but the wheel bearings on a 164 are something in the neighborhood of $100.00 a piece.

I ask because I did have a shop over Thanksgiving do a 4-wheel alignment and they didnt report anything out of the ordinary.. but if I find a problem I hope to have recourse with their work.

Hopefully the weather will cooperate on this end of the state and I will be able to jack up the car tomorrow or Thursday and take a look.

Thanks again!

Cheers
Martin.

PS... just a thought: I attributed the possibility of a warped disk to my moving from lower to higher altitudes coupled with my changing demands for the car. However your suggestions have me thinking because when I moved to KY I had the car flatbedded and the front wheels were held down with tie straps... any thoughts on damages from that?

**conedriver** · #12 (**permalink**) 03-25-2009, 04:34 AM

Martin,

I don't think transporting the car with the wheels tied down should cause your shimmy problems; lots of people use this method. I wonder if you should take this discussion to the 164 forum, since no one has picked up on your questions here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlfaRomeo1750

George,

Thanks again for the suggestion... My next question is... Should I find any looseness in the suspension e.g. wheel bearing is this a "must replace" issue or a tighten up issue. I know with tie-rods its not a big deal to replace those nor are they terribly expensive but the wheel bearings on a 164 are something in the neighborhood of $100.00 a piece.

I ask because I did have a shop over Thanksgiving do a 4-wheel alignment and they didnt report anything out of the ordinary.. but if I find a problem I hope to have recourse with their work.

Hopefully the weather will cooperate on this end of the state and I will be able to jack up the car tomorrow or Thursday and take a look.

Thanks again!

Cheers
Martin.

PS... just a thought: I attributed the possibility of a warped disk to my moving from lower to higher altitudes coupled with my changing demands for the car. However your suggestions have me thinking because when I moved to KY I had the car flatbedded and the front wheels were held down with tie straps... any thoughts on damages from that?

**conedriver** · #13 (**permalink**) 03-25-2009, 05:11 AM

Martin,

I don't think transporting the car with the wheels tied down should cause your shimmy problems; lots of people use this method. I wonder if you should take this discussion to the 164 forum, since no one has picked up on your questions here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlfaRomeo1750

George,

Thanks again for the suggestion... My next question is... Should I find any looseness in the suspension e.g. wheel bearing is this a "must replace" issue or a tighten up issue. I know with tie-rods its not a big deal to replace those nor are they terribly expensive but the wheel bearings on a 164 are something in the neighborhood of $100.00 a piece.

I ask because I did have a shop over Thanksgiving do a 4-wheel alignment and they didnt report anything out of the ordinary.. but if I find a problem I hope to have recourse with their work.

Hopefully the weather will cooperate on this end of the state and I will be able to jack up the car tomorrow or Thursday and take a look.

Thanks again!

Cheers
Martin.

PS... just a thought: I attributed the possibility of a warped disk to my moving from lower to higher altitudes coupled with my changing demands for the car. However your suggestions have me thinking because when I moved to KY I had the car flatbedded and the front wheels were held down with tie straps... any thoughts on damages from that?

AlfaRomeo1750 · #14 (**permalink**) 03-25-2009, 07:26 AM

George,

Thanks again! I have tried the 164 technical forum for this issue but the responses were few and far between which is why I tried here before desperation set in.

I go to the Med. School here in Pikeville and a few of my classmates who drive foreign cars use a mechanic just north of Prestonsburg but he has never worked on Alfas. Given that I am on spring break I had hoped to at least solve the mystery.. so your advice and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Since I have you on the line so to speak.... Lexington is only a 2 hr drive for me.. are there any good alfa mechanics in that area that I should know about?

Lastly... in your experience could a wheel imbalance cause any of the symptoms? I know this is all academic until I run out there and jack up the car, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. What ever is happening I am pretty sure that we are dealing with a rotating part because the car is stable at speed, it only gets bumpy when I hit the brakes.

Thanks again George! I'll let you know what I find out.

Cheers from Pikeville
Martin.

gt601 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-25-2009, 09:00 AM

Hey Martin. The easiest fastest way would be to jack up each wheel (front & rear) and spin it as fast as you can. (w/car in nuetral ) and see if you can hear the pads touching the rotor as the wheel rotates. If you are feeling the vibs in your seat there is a chance that you have rear warpage. It can be front and rear at the same time. YOu will also be able to tel then if you might have a sticking caliper also that has over heated a rotor and warped it. If you need rotors see if you can find the ATE brand. They are not too much and are good quality.
See attached pic.

Paul