Gta 2000 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 04-23-2008, 10:03 AM
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Gta 2000

In the "Where are all the GTAms" thread the GTA 2000 is raised.

According to Tabucchi these were kind of test mules for the GTAm engine. That is the GTAm motor w/ Lucas injection (208hp@6500rpm) was fitted to a GTAjunior chassis. Tabucchi states that the first outing of these car was at Tour de Corse in 1969 - this took place November 8-9, 1969. Wheels were 14x7 w/ Michelin PA2 or TA3. Cars were entered by Autodelta and drivers were Pinto/Santonacci (see picture below) who suffered a puncture and suspension breakage at Guitera. The other team was Barayller/Fayel who suffered clutch breakage.

Adriaensens also reports GTA 2000 race results, albeit later.

Circuit of Benguela, Angola April 10, 1970
Peixinho GTA2000 - 1st overall

Circuit of Cabinda, Angola April 26, 1970
Peixinho - 1st
Bandeira/Viera - 2nd
both cars are described as GTA2000

Sao Paulo, Brazil, May 1-3, 1970
Zambello/Fernandez - 2nd
GTA2000

Interlagos, Brazil, August 9, 1970
Catapani - 1st overall
GTA2000

Nova Lisboa, Angola, August 9-10, 1970 - 6h Intercacionais do Huamba
Fraga/Resende - 2nd place
Santos "Peras"/Flavio Santos car# 8 - 3rd place
both cars are described as GTAjuniors w/ 2 liter motor

I have some doubts whether the Brazilian cars were actually 2000cc, as both Zambello and Fernandez are reported to have won events in 1969 with a GTA1900 which is a different engine (1840cc), though it cannot be ruled out that their car was upgraded to 2000cc for 1970. Regardless, given the dates of the events in Brazil, the Angolan and Brazilian cars are different.

So, I am curious how many of these GTAjunior based GTA2000's were built and whether the Angolan cars may be the same cars that were entered originally in the Tour de Corse or specially built for Angola. What is ertain that Autodelta did send some interesting stuff to Angola including at least one tipo33.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:22 AM
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This was a AD car Bruno 1969. I beleive this was one of the test mules with the GTAm motor.

AD also played with the 16v motor in the GTA. I beleive I have some pics of it. I do know in Australia they raced one in that configuration as well.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:01 AM
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Here are two pics from the 6h de Nova Lisboa showing the 3rd place car (#8) and probably the 2nd place car (#7).
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossoGTV4Me View Post
This was a AD car Bruno 1969. I beleive this was one of the test mules with the GTAm motor.

AD also played with the 16v motor in the GTA. I beleive I have some pics of it. I do know in Australia they raced one in that configuration as well.
wow! has anyone got photos of the 16v in a GTA?
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:56 PM
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Some more info on the Brazil GTA 2000 front from:

http://www.fiatpress.com.br/fiatpres...spx?Codigo=163

The original Portuguese followed by the Google translation...

Mas a Alfa Romeo também teve uma participação marcante nas Mil Milhas Brasileiras. Em 1960, Chico Landi e Christian Heins, pilotando um Alfa Romeo JK 2.0, venceram a 5ª etapa da prova e quebraram a hegemonia das carreteras (veículos montados sobre chassis de automóveis), vitoriosas nas quatro primeiras edições da competição. Em 1970, os irmãos Abílio e Alcides Diniz receberam a bandeira quadriculada a bordo de um Alfa Romeo GTA 2000.But the Alfa Romeo also had a remarkable participation in the Brazilian Thousand Miles. Em 1960, Chico Landi e Christian Heins, pilotando um Alfa Romeo JK 2.0, venceram a 5ª etapa da prova e quebraram a hegemonia das carreteras (veículos montados sobre chassis de automóveis), vitoriosas nas quatro primeiras edições da competição.

In 1960, Chico Landi and Christian Heins, riding an Alfa Romeo 2.0 JK, won the 5 th stage of the race and broke the hegemony of roads (vehicles mounted on a car chassis), victorious in the first four editions of the competition. Em 1970, os irmãos Abílio e Alcides Diniz receberam a bandeira quadriculada a bordo de um Alfa Romeo GTA 2000. In 1970, the brothers and Alcides Abilio Diniz received the flag quadriculada on board Alfa Romeo GTA 2000.

Grand Prix Winners

Also from : SuperLicença - O portal brasileiro do automobilismo

TODOS OS CAMPEÕES DA MIL MILHAS BRASIL
24/11/1956 - Catharino Andreatta/Breno Fornari (Carretera Ford)
23/11/1957 - Aristides Bertuol/Orlando Menegaz (Carretera Chevrolet)
19/11/1958 - Catharino Andreatta/Breno Fornari (Carretera Ford)
21/11/1959 - Catharino Andreatta/Breno Fornari (Carretera Ford)
23/11/1960 - Chico Landi/Christian Heins (FNM JK 2000)
25/11/1961 - Italo Bertão/Orlando Menegaz (Carretera Chevrolet)
17/11/1965 - Justino de Maio/Victoria Azzalin (Carretera Chevrolet)
19/11/1966 - Camilo Christófaro/Eduardo Celidôneo (Carretera Chevrolet)
3/12/1967 - Luís Pereira Bueno/Luiz Terra Smith (Interlagos Mark 1)
22/11/1970 Abílio Diniz/Alcides Diniz (Alfa Romeo GTA 2000)

So in 1970 the Diniz brothers won the 1000 km ( miles?)

I wish we could locate some pictures to confirm the type of motor used. Was it a 1900 or a 2000?

Don
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:09 PM
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To confirm the suspicion of Alleggerita that there were at least two 2 litre GTAs in Angola here is the entry list for the 6 Horas do Huambo ( Nova LIsboa) in 1970, and for good measure a picture from the 1971 race which identifying the non tipo 33 as a GTA 2000. Drivers are Santos Peras tipo 33 and Nogueira Pinto in the GTA 2000.

Don
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:17 PM
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A litte off topic, but if we take a trip down south where we see Foley's super lightweight Alfa GTA seen exiting the causeway at Warwick Farm in 1973. Although only 2 Litre, this 16 Valve fuel injected Alfa engine produced 223 BHP and at 636Kg made this 105 the fastest of its time in Austrailia.
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Last edited by RossoGTV4Me; 07-26-2008 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:09 PM
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There is some interesting information on the GTA 2000 and GTAm in Angola in this thread mostly on pages 226 and onwards:

mázungue | 3- Desporto Motorizado Em Angola | Automóveis

for those of us who do not read Portuguese there is always Babelfish...

Don
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:42 PM
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GTA 2000 engine picture from the '69 Tour de Corse for sale on e-bay right now:

Alfa Romeo Giulia GTA - engine compartment - Rally - eBay (item 370209727272 end time Jun-08-09 05:45:06 PDT)
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:47 PM
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I believe the Brazilian jolly club team car is this one, owned by Zambello the importer of alfa and Ferrari to Brazil at the time, I think is now in England and it was completed refurbish with all the correct parts



In this forum there is some supposed gta parts for sell that I think are from this car also. They have for sale a 1600 gta block whit monosleve maybe the basis for one of these 2000 gta motors?



Perhaps some one with more knowledge than me can clarify this information

Regards
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Old 06-02-2009, 07:07 PM
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Check this out, actually the car is in Germany

Jan Lühn
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:14 PM
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Surely stuffing a 2000 motor in a GTA was a very common mod as the quest for more power was played out. That is what usually happens to old race cars.

Is there actually a race GTA/GTAm with it's original motor still, and how could we prove that anyway?
Pete
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Surely stuffing a 2000 motor in a GTA was a very common mod as the quest for more power was played out. That is what usually happens to old race cars.

Is there actually a race GTA/GTAm with it's original motor still, and how could we prove that anyway?
Pete
No, a 2000 motor in 1969 or 70 was not a common mod, as Alfa did not make 2000cc motors for the general public then. The GTA's that had them were few and far between, as the car could only be run in a prototype class in most places with that type of engine - they are essentially GTAm test mules/prototypes. And then came the GTAm ... and if you went FIA racing that's what you had to have.

And you can't run a regular 2000 block with a twin plug head very easily, whether that is a GTA or GTAm head, as they have different bore centers - 1750 is a different story. Now there was a German Alfa dealer that sold GTA junior stradales with 2000 engines - using the 1300 engines for some other project - no twin plug head though.

And there are actually quite a few race GTA's with original engines around - a surprising number actually - one is sitting in my garage - same number as in the original log book.

Last edited by Alleggerita; 06-02-2009 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33maniac View Post
I believe the Brazilian jolly club team car is this one, owned by Zambello the importer of alfa and Ferrari to Brazil at the time, I think is now in England and it was completed refurbish with all the correct parts



In this forum there is some supposed gta parts for sell that I think are from this car also. They have for sale a 1600 gta block whit monosleve maybe the basis for one of these 2000 gta motors?



Perhaps some one with more knowledge than me can clarify this information

Regards
Thread on the car is here:http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/giul...-613599-a.html

I am satisfied that it definitely had a 1900 engine in it at some point in time during it's early racing career. Adriensens describes Zambello coming 1st at Costa del Silva, Brazil (with GTA1900) and Fernandes/Pace coming in 1st place with GTA 1900 on April 24, 1969 at 1000km of Brazil, and again Zambello 1st overall at Porte Allegre, Brazil, again with GTA 1900.

Adriensens then describes the Zambello/Fernandez car coming 2nd overall on May 1-3, 1970 as GTA 2000. Then, Catapani at 250 miles of Interlagos on August 9, 1970, again GTA 2000. Thus, it may also have had a 2000 engine (GTAm block) in it at some point prior to such an engine being available for sale to the public, unless the 1900 motor was mistakingly referred to as a 2000. Zambello did also run a GTAm, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if he had been supplied with a test mule/engine, especially, as running larger displacement was common and permitted in Brazil at the time.

BTW, I notice that you are from Portugal. It is my understanding that the #8 Peixinho car from Angola spent some time in Portugal, owned, I believe by Xavier Moreira (sp?) Any more information available on it?

Last edited by Alleggerita; 06-02-2009 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleggerita View Post
No, a 2000 motor in 1969 or 70 was not a common mod, as Alfa did not make 2000cc motors for the general public then. The GTA's that had them were few and far between, as the car could only be run in a prototype class in most places with that type of engine - they are essentially GTAm test mules/prototypes. And then came the GTAm ... and if you went FIA racing that's what you had to have.

And you can't run a regular 2000 block with a twin plug head very easily, whether that is a GTA or GTAm head, as they have different bore centers - 1750 is a different story. Now there was a German Alfa dealer that sold GTA junior stradales with 2000 engines - using the 1300 engines for some other project - no twin plug head though.

And there are actually quite a few race GTA's with original engines around - a surprising number actually - one is sitting in my garage - same number as in the original log book.
Surely post '70 then many race GTA's had 2000/1750 engines stuffed into them as the now ageing cars tried to stay competitive?

Or in Europe, etc. do race cars stop racing a couple of seasons old?, because in New Zealand and Australia cars have very long careers and the car at the end of it's racing career often only resembles the car at the begining
Pete
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