Introduction



Hello Prettyvacant,

Welcome on the Alfa Bulletin Board. I personally would appreciate a short introduction of you and the reason why you are looking for information concerning this car.

Ciao, Olaf

 

Olaf,

There are quite simply two chaps who have raced a Lancia Fulvia for a number of years, and now wish to build a replica of aforementioned car.

Simple as that.

Thanks

 

Two chaps



Hello chaps,

A decent introduction is something that I would expect from new members. That's what I would do in real life when I enter a room with people or mix in a conversation. So, tell us a little bit more about yourselves.

Ciao, Olaf

 

Suspicious

Olaf,

Whilst I appreciate your concern I've never liked to put too many details of myself and my esteemed race partner in any forum.

However we are both in our mid 40's, both in the UK have built race vehicles before and raced succesfully together for the past 5 years.

I started in single seaters back in the late 80's.

I have been looking at this bulletin board for a long while now, and know some of the posters on here.

My Fiance also races an Alfa, we attend many Alfa functions and races and even the Scuderia del Portello premiazione, where we have many friends.

My intention was to come on here to ask advice and for information, I did'nt realise you had to place a CV on here or pass some form of personal scrutineering.

I trust there are others who may well help as intended and are not fraught with suspicion.

I have been in touch with the Maschke family who are indeed very helpful.

Thanks and maybe farewell, unless someone can restore my faith in likeminded individuals genuinely asking for advice and information.

 

Not sure if you are looking for the actual car or you plan to build a replica - how true to the original is it going to be? More likely than not the Jägermeister/Maschke car was either owned by Hähn in Mannheim or was an ex-Hähn car. At least two of the Hähn GTA's that ran as GTA juniors in the early to mid 70's were actually 1600 cars that were converted to 1300 spec. The Maschke car likely sported a narrow angle head, possibly 4-valve. It would probably be worthwhile to talk to Helmut Hähn.

 

No suspicious minds , just plain interest

Hello prettyvacant,

Thank you for the introduction, prettyvacant! No suspicious minds nor scruteneering on my side. You asked the members from this forum to help you with information on the Jagermeister car. It is your first post and you do not tell anything about yourself. Your profile doesn't add anything as well. This personally will not invite me very much to react to your question.

If someone asks about a specific car, tells me something about him or herself and tells me what and why, that will help. That you do not want to tell us your names is fine with me. I can understand that you don't want to display your private life out here. Sounds reasonable to me.

Now, back to the Jagermeister car. First I checked a book written in German and called 'Jagermeister Racing' written by Eckhard Schimpf and published by Delius Klasing Verlag in 2007. ISBN number 978-3-7688-1976-3. This book deals with the cars sponsored by Jagermeister in the period 1972-2000.
The book does mention a GTA 1300 Junior with Jagermeister sponsoring. It was raced by Rainer Maschke (in 1972-1974) and Wolf-Peter Mast (in 1972-1973). The car apparently drove on circuits (Rundstrecke) and did hillclimbs (Berg). The book doesn't supply us with much more information than that. But maybe Eckhard Schimpf and the photographer of the book, Ferdi Kraling can help with pictures from and information on the car.

This forum Forzamotorsport.net Forums - jagermeister Alfa Romeo dealt with the car and I attached some pictures of a digital version from that website.

I checked my own database but couldn't a single picture of the car.

I checked the site 1972 Cars for pictures of this specific GTA 1300 Junior. None found. I checked Wolf-Peter Mast on Google but it didn't gave any results if combined with Alfa Romeo. Maschke does ring bells but mainly with the scalemodel of the GTA 1300 Junior.

Last thing I checked were the books 'Alleggerita' by Tony Adriaensens, published in 1994 by Corsa Research and 'Alfa Romeo GTA' by Maurizio Tabucchi, published in 1994 by Giorgio Nada Editore. As far as I can see, they don't mention a GTA 1300 Junior with Jagermeister sponsoring nor do they contain any pictures of such a car.

So, it seems to be a bit of a blind spot, this GTA 1300 Junior. Maybe other members can tell more about this car?
And sources of further information could be:
http://www.alfaclub-forum.de/
http://www.alfisti.net/
http://www.club-klassischer-alfa.de/

Ciao, Olaf

 

Here's an entry at the Nurburgring in 1976 as #78 - car entered by Hähn - though car apparently did not arrive/run - no picture but I would say that it certainly would have been wide body as in the model.

GP Nürburgring 1976 - Photo Gallery - Racing Sports Cars

 

Thanks so far guys!

The plan is to do it as a full replica of the car.

Have gone through the Jagermeister book and Allegerita as we have those at home and a couple of others.

As you said it is likely to be a narrow angle head wich we have a contact in Italy looking into. The car as far as we can find out was owned by Maschke bu not sure of its previous history.

I have had some helpful comments from Rainer Maschke's son via email and am wating for a reply from Herr Maschke himself after the Xmas holidays, as he is with is son!

The main reason we chose this as a replica to build is that it looks so good, and naturally we want to get as close to the original spec as is possible and to get FIA papers for the car.

Currently the shell is in preparation and the plan is to have the car finished by April 2010.

I'll most likley post images as we go along

 

FIA papers ... Surely that does not require you to replica exactly as per "this" particular car because of course it is not actually this car??

The FIA will issue papers for your GT for its own chassis number as it is not a GTA and will not have this old cars chassis number.

Confused
Pete

 

Latest update, bodywork progressing well, all metalwork should be finished by end of Feb ready to have the shell dipped and primed, all GRP parts will then be fitted by mid March.

 

Prettyvacant,
You mention accuracy and being as close the original as possible but then mention GRP parts! Are these parts external GRP panels? I don't know if the Jagermeister car had replacement GRP bodywork when racing but aluminium panels are readily available.

 

Stuart,

You mention grp vs ally body panels - I`m sure this has been discussed elsewhere - but are you implying that grp is not an original factory, AutoDelta fitment?

Richard

 

If the aim is to reproduce a Jägermeister-sponsored "fat" GTA Junior like the Minichamps model, then the fenders extensions are necessarily GRP, as I understand Prettyvacant intended. But indeed further GRP parts were available and homologated, as far as I recall, including hoods and doors. If accurate replication is intended, the issue is to discover how the Jägermeister racer was fitted.

 

I must say I was assuming an un-extended car shape as per Zagato-Olaf's photographs as I too have no photographs of the car in period and, personally, the normal body shape is still visually the best. I am, of course, aware that certain GRP panels were homologated at differing times for the Junior but clearly at some time it didn't have them.
Perhaps further research is needed to find what precise specification the car had at the date at which the replica is being "realistic"! Period racing photographs would clearly show if the body were extended but would not show if the roof, bonnet and doors were GRP. Are you to re-produce the car's precise livery too?
Alternatively you can throw "realism" out of the window and say "I will have the wide body, GRP everything........ because that's what I like" and have fun!

 

I must say I was assuming an un-extended car shape as per Zagato-Olaf's photographs

I would talk about virtual modelization instead.

 

OK, virtual modelization! Same comments!

 

I have for many years tried to find images of the original car. At last I believe i have found it.

This link takes you to the 1972 Jarama 4 hours. Helmut Hessel and Hartwig Betrams started from 14th on the grid. At 1:54 the video shows an Orange GTA with a yellow front end.

 

The Jagermeister sponsored GTA 1300J were more than one.
The car that you are searching for still exists and is owned by Mr. Baumgarten of Deutschland. Here is its photo and some other Jagermeister sponsored cars in the '70ties.

 

Thank you



Dear ARGTAReg,

Thank for your reply and the pictures.

Ciao, Olaf

 

I always find these information requests interesting....Prettyvacant`s initial - and final - postings date back to 2009, some 6 years ago and none since!

I wonder if it was ever built? I hope so and some news would be good....

Richard

 

The third picture shows the car of my father Rainer Maschke. This was the first Jägermeister GTA and was driven bei my father in the DRM...