wheel clearance and rubbing on guards

[aolesnicky]

hi guys
Got my new gulia GT registered and took it for my first drive today. the previous owner has fitted 14x6.5 gta style alloys (which look great) withe yokohama 032R 185/60 semislick racing tyres.
However on even minor bumps the rear LH tyre scrapes the bent over lip on the inside of the wheel well/guard and makes a horrible noise. It appears to happen on the RHS but much less.
The PO has also lowered the car (not sure how much or which springs he has fitted) When I line up the outmost parts of the tyre and see where it hits the lip on the rear guards it is about half of the width of the lip. Do I

grind away some of this lip to get clearance?
mill the back of the wheels to get them more inboard?

Can anyone explain what guard rolling is? will it need to be repainted afterwards. Does it affect the external/visible profile of the wheelarch in any way.

I am reading about ou guys fitting 195/205 even 215 so cant understand why I am having so much trouble with 185s

als can anyone tell me what the original eqimpment tyres were for the early 15 inch and later 14 inch wheel so i can compare original rolling circumference to any new tyre I fit

thanks

andrew

[Alfajay]

aolesnicky:

Yea, that happens. Wider tires + lowered car = tire rubbing wheel wells.

You don't want to cut your wheels to try to narrow the track width. You could never cut enough off them to make a difference, without compromising the wheels' strength.

Working on the lip is the better approach - either grinding or rolling. Your paint may crack/chip as you roll the metal if it's been a long time since the car was last painted. If you suspect that your paint is old & brittle, then soften it up by warming it with a heatgun.

[180OUT]

Quote:

I am reading about ou guys fitting 195/205 even 215 so cant understand why I am having so much trouble with 185s als can anyone tell me what the original eqimpment tyres were for the early 15 inch and later 14 inch wheel so i can compare original rolling circumference to any new tyre I fit

[aolesnicky]

thanks guys
I have booked in to a whhel and tyre place to get the lip of the guards rolled - hopefully not too much paint damage will occur.

I dont think the car has been damaged - the difference from left to right is not very much but just enough. Plus there is a bit of endfloat in the big rear axle stsbilising t bar thingy which is possible worth a few mm of slop and rubbing.
Any way I am confident that the guard rolling will cure the problem as the rubbing is only occuring on about half of the fender lip so if they can make it a really tight bend is shoudl clear the 185's. My wheels/tyres do look a bit small. I always liked the look of the bigger early 15 inch wheels but more so I like the look of the gta alloys 14 inch currently on the car so I will probably try to make them work. Was thinking of going 175's but the wheels are 6.5 inch wide so the tyres will be too narrow. I will fit 185/65 slightly higher aspect ration so might look a bit bigger
cheers
andrew

[Alfajay]

aolesnicky:

You had written: "there is a bit of endfloat in the big rear axle stsbilising t bar thingy which is possible worth a few mm of slop and rubbing"

I wouldn't let that go unattended for too long. There are large rubber & steel bushings at either end of the T arm, and these can degrade with time. In theory new bushings can be pressed in. In practice it's tough to align these properly, and easier to find a good, used T arm. Note that when you replace the bushings or whole arm, you need to re-shim it where it bolts to the frame in order to make sure that the diff ends up centered.

[BlpltGTV]

It sounds to me like you have the wrong offset on the wheels. I have 14X7s on my car with 185/60s and there is miles of room. I have a set of Centerline springs on the car as well. Do take care of the slop in the T bar as it will create some strange handling. It tends to make the rear end feel like its hinged. Its a strange feeling.

Will

[aolesnicky]

got my wheel arches rolled up today and four new yokohama c-drives. So nice not to hear that horrible noise driving over bumps and onhard corners. Now time to turn my attention to some mechanical bits and pieces and have her driving sweetly hopefully soon. will get the t bar seen to soon and the steering idler arm and anew propshaft (splines are stuffed). Does anyone know of a reference that cross references compatability of parts (such as idler arms and prop shafts) between various alfa models.
thanks for your help
andrew

[Alfajay]

Will: Yea, but did your '69 come with 14" or 15" wheels from the factory? I know that earlier cars had shallower wheel arches, and later cars had more deeply cut arches. I'm not sure when Alfa transitioned from one design to the other, but would guess it coincided with the introduction of 14" wheels.

I'm also guessing that aolesnicky has an earlier car (though, he hasn't divulged the year!), so wheels that might fit without rubbing on your '69 would interfere with his '6X (where X < 9). Also, his car may have been lowered more.

aolesnicky:

You should probably ask about the specific parts you want to swap. Steering idlers are the same across the 105/115 family (though the channel shaped limit stops that bolt onto the outside of the idler and box are NOT the same between early and later cars). Driveshafts only exchange between Sprints & GTV's (spiders and berlinas use different lengths). And early driveshafts have smaller dia bolts at the 4-bolt flanges (8mm instead of 9mm I think), though when you press out your U joints, you can retain your old 8mm front and rear flanges, with a newer driveshaft.

[aolesnicky]

thanks jay
mine is a 1966 and would have come with 15 inch narrow wheels. I presume the arches are the narrower type and then with the 14x6.5 scrape. Anyway problem solved with some minor body work.
thanks for the info re driveshafts. will have a ring around local parts dealers
cheers
andrew

[BlpltGTV]

My car came with 14s, but it is an early 69 so who knows. It could very well be lowered more than mine. I think we need some pictures here.

Will

[Alfajay]

BlpltGTV had said: "I think we need some pictures here"

The first photo below my 105.02 '66 Sprint GT. This car was delivered with 15" wheels (though it has 14" Cromadoras on it in the photo). Note the distance from the horizontal crease that runs along the body down to the top of the wheel well.

The second photo is of a later car that I just "borrowed" from another thread - a hanging pedal GTV . Again, note the spacing from the crease down to the top of the wheel well.

[emr5503]

Jay,
Thanks for the pics. I bought a set of 7" chromodoras for my '65 GTA 4 or 5 years ago from Hugh Tompkins who was running a '68 GTAjr. When I went to fit them, they stuck outside the rear fender by about 1". The rear fender is 1 1/2" lower on the early cars. Live & learn - back to the 6" s.
Ed