1971 Gtv

[jonesdds]

I recently looked at and drove a 1971 GTV. Good body with decent(better than expected) body panel fit, no dents or dings and driver's floor plan rust only on cursory inspection and per owner. Mechanically, runs very rough from 1-2K rpm and didn't start easily, the owner(an alfa mechanic) said it requires a bit of pumping from the accelerator and will start right up. The rough running maybe due to a cam upgrade-the owner stated different cams were installed he thought due to the rough running in that range. My thoughts were if high performance cams were installed then high rpm acceleration should be improved, but that was not my observation. In fact, I've been told and have read that GTV's should accelerate in the 9-10 sec range from 0-60, this felt a little less than that. Also, brakes were not existent until more than half the pedal travel, I didn't think for a moment I was going to stop on first braking. Master cylinder was recently replaced and the owner is an alfa mechanic, I assume the braking system was bled properly. Maybe other parts are worn and need replacement, not sure at this point. Interior-seats are cloth, pretty good shape overall. Dash is pulling apart at the seams above the instrument cluster. Wood in so-so condition on the dash, rear seats and door panels are not too bad. Magnesium alloys, original in decent shape.

Car is listed at $14K with 96K on the odo, not confirmable according to owner. Appears interior and exterior are original, rust repairs to the rocker panels done per owner and none was seen in trunk/spare. Apparently some in floor pan of drivers side.

Thoughts on these cars? They are definetly getting rare and I'm not sure what the values are on these cars currently so I'm asking your help. What I like about this car is the body looks real clean and no history of accidents. Rust it appears is minimal.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Jeff

[velocedoc]

I read back some years ago that only 850 71 GTV's were imported. Given the years, there are probably less than half of that remaining. What do you think it will take to get the car in to decent condition? Are you willing to infuse the cash and time to make it a decent car again? It is complete from what I am guessing by your post so that is a plus. Carbureted or Injected? The 1750 is a great revving motor and returns good mileage. A great car to drive on a trip. I will let others comment on the price being suggested.

What I don't get, if the guy is an Alfa mechanic the car should run nice and sweet. Yet, it doesn't. Something doesn't equate here?

[pathung]

Jeff,

Oops, I mis-read GTV for Spider!

I recently sold a '71 GTV in the $5K range, but the car had some rust issues and interior needed complete replacement. If the car you're looking at seems to need some work, I'd peg it at $10K or therabouts, provided the body is clean and paint merely needing a polish. $14K is for a "driver" car with no obvious issues such as crappy brakes and a dashboard on its way out.

The '71 is rarer, but in my past research it does not seem to command more money.

[jonesdds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocedoc I read back some years ago that only 850 71 GTV's were imported. Given the years, there are probably less than half of that remaining. What do you think it will take to get the car in to decent condition? Are you willing to infuse the cash and time to make it a decent car again? It is complete from what I am guessing by your post so that is a plus. Carbureted or Injected? The 1750 is a great revving motor and returns good mileage. A great car to drive on a trip. I will let others comment on the price being suggested. What I don't get, if the guy is an Alfa mechanic the car should run nice and sweet. Yet, it doesn't. Something doesn't equate here?

[pathung]

With your further description, I'm dropping my assessment from $10K to $7.5K. A quality engine rebuild would cost in the neighborhood of $5K. Might as well re-do the tranny? $1.2K, I should think.

All U.S. cars from 1969 and on had SPICA fuel injection; they're great when tuned right, but not so when the mechanic doesn't know what he's doing. Best to send it to Seattle's Wes Ingram for a checkup.

How high was the oil pressure, by the way? How's it shifting? Crunch going into 2nd gear?

[velocedoc]

Wes Ingram can rebuild your pump to what level of performance you are looking for. The 71 pump had the richest profile cam of all the pumps. The car still returned 27 mpg. A good head port will increase the mileage. I love the 1750 engine as it seems to me to run better. The engine most likely will need a rebuild as does the tranny. Once that is done, you are good to go for a lot of miles with smiles. Since the car is a 105 chassis, you can do a lot of performance suspension upgrades as evidenced by the many threads about what to do.

[jonesdds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathung With your further description, I'm dropping my assessment from $10K to $7.5K. A quality engine rebuild would cost in the neighborhood of $5K. Might as well re-do the tranny? $1.2K, I should think. All U.S. cars from 1969 and on had SPICA fuel injection; they're great when tuned right, but not so when the mechanic doesn't know what he's doing. Best to send it to Seattle's Wes Ingram for a checkup. How high was the oil pressure, by the way? How's it shifting? Crunch going into 2nd gear?

[gprocket]

If the body is truly sound and only the mechanicals are iffy I would say it is worth a serious look if could get down to the $7k range. But why would an Alfa mechanic not be able to explain (if not fix) the problems? That alone casts doubt on the body. Motors, brakes, even interiors are just $$ and wrenching but hidden rust can be a nightmarish money pit with no limit. Even if you could get it for $7k you could easily spend another $7k to do the bare minimum.

How does it compare to this one: eBay Motors: Alfa Romeo : GTV Coupe (item 290235741154 end time Jun-09-08 13:19:05 PDT)

I think the '69's are more desirable than the '71's with the small tail lights and flying buttress seats.

There are a lot of nice GTV drivers to be had in the $14k range. The '71's are rare but as others have pointed out they really don't command much more (yet). I would opt for the best car in that price range and not be too concerned about which year - they are all wonderful!


BTW, I doubt you would find anything more than Euro cams if it is a stock SPICA pump. Also, I doubt the seat are original if they are cloth.

[alfagtv74]

here is a red 71 for a price guide


eBay Motors: Alfa Romeo : 1750 GTV (item 170224195795 end time Jun-09-08 21:00:00 PDT)

[Alfajay]

Jonesdds:

A few random thoughts on your prospective purchase:

- It is impossible for someone on the Internet - particularly someone who hasn't even seen pictures - to tell you what price is fair. $14K isn't an out of line asking price for a presentable, running, registered GTV. However, given the engine and braking problems you describe, the numbers Pathung is suggesting might make more sense.

- In a situation like this, you're evaluating the seller as much as you are evaluating his car. To me, the car sounds OK, but the seller sounds very fishy. If he were just some clueless newbie, the problems might be forgivable. But as velocedoc wrote, for an "Alfa mechanic" to be driving a car with bad brakes and a rough engine is very suspicious. The "performance cam" explanation just doesn't make sense.

- At any price, this car should be evaluated by a real Alfa mechanic before any deal is done. Brakes aren't that expensive to fix, and even the engine MIGHT have a minor problem - but do you want to bear this risk?

- While $7K may be a fair price, it's doubtful that a seller starting at $14K is going to settle for 50% of his initial price. I'd suggest that you ask the seller to either correct the engine and brake problems, or else find a more gullible buyer. I'm betting that he'll chose the latter.

[lowmileage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesdds Mechanically, runs very rough from 1-2K rpm and didn't start easily, the owner(an alfa mechanic) said it requires a bit of pumping from the accelerator and will start right up. The rough running maybe due to a cam upgrade-the owner stated different cams were installed he thought due to the rough running in that range. Car is listed at $14K .. Thoughts on these cars?

[jonesdds]

I just can't seem to get this car out of my head. I've had a love for these cars in the last five plus years and it certainly benefits from the close proximity... I've got a local guy that's worked on my Ferrari, he does Lambo's, Ferrari's and has a Pantera, seems pretty knowledgeable, maybe having him take a good luck would make sense. Plan on doing that and taking a closer look myself with my camera on hand. If I manage to take a detailed list of photos I'll post the to get your opinions. For a frame of reference, a good driver that needs nothing will sell for around what? I'm thinking $15-20K. I don't mean to suggest this car is in that category. At best, this is a $10K car and probably not even that. Thoughts? BTW, you guys have a great board here, very much like Fchat that I frequent.

Jeff

[Gary Williams]

This falls somewhere between a shameless plug and a helpful response to your GTV questions. On e-bay is a 1974 GTV that fits the bill for a very nice driver:eBay Motors: Alfa Romeo : GTV (item 320259598401 end time Jun-10-08 13:23:15 PDT) . It will provide a good comparison for you between the fixer-upper you're looking at and one you can get in and drive.

The '74 is being sold by my son. He comes from long-time Alfa family and has more than a decade of experience with his own Alfas. He bought a very nice car. Then, with the help of Alfisti friends and me, he went over it to add some nice upgrades and to make it even better. Those improvements are listed in his e-bay ad.