New to Forum, looking for Alfa advice

[hoov23]

Hello all,
I have been reading through this forum for a week or two trying to learn a bit about Giulias. I am interested in buying a stepnose Bertone coupe, but I'm confused about pricing between the Sprint GT, 1300 Junior, and the 1600 GTV. Seems to me that Juniors are pulling a premium over the more powerful and rare Veloce. Is that the case, and if so, why? What are the plusses and minuses of the three late-60s GTs? I am most interested in finding a "nice" original red coupe for around 10-15k that I won't have to spend more than a grand to fix up. Seems that I'm a little low. Was watching the red Jr on eBay and reading the posts here about that car. Wouldn't be opposed to a modified car like that, but is that price what I should pay (given the paint)? Also, it seems that there are so many early cars with the 1750 engine - is there a problem with the 1300 & 1600 that warrants the swap, or is it just that much more powerful?
Hope you all can help, and if all goes according to plan I should be on Alfa BB for a while to come.
-Chris

[nero]

I think 15 to 20 would be a better range for the type of car you are looking for. The gt1300 you looked at is a nice car, a gt or veloce in similar condition will cost as much if not slightly more. The paint issue is not as important as what is underneath it, is it a solid unrusted original metal or freshly painted poorly repaired bondo repair that will pop up again soon. Read some of akitamans threads on body resto, you would be surprised at what is hidden on some cars that look sound but once stripped reveal 40 years of poor repairs and rust. These cars are 40 plus years old now,look for a rust free example, mechanical work is easy compared to extensive body repairs, and be prepared to spend more for a very good car.Your 1000 dollar repair budget is pretty conservative for a old italian car, what if you find a rust free time warp car that has been sitting for a decade, but needs a good going over mechanically, you going to pass it by cause you only want to spend a 1000 on repairs. While not super rare, a good stepnose wont be as easy to find as other cars, be patient and look at a few and see what seperates a good car from a so so model. The cost of a proper resto still excedes what you you will pay for a top notch car, in my opinion 30k plus or minus a bit.And you wont see to many of them on ebay.1300s were not sold in the usa, more common in Canada and europe and yes people like to drop in larger lump for more power, and easier to find in us.I am sure others will add to the discussion, happy hunting.

[emerald]

I think what you've observed in price on the GT Jr is more the characteristics of the specific car and condition versus an indicator of actual market value. From the guides I've seen, the 1600 Veloce in the same condition is worth more than a GT Jr. This makes sense if you think of the overall numbers produced. Also, don't get talked into a "rare" Jr. here in the U.S. In today's world of global markets where cars are moved across oceans, this is a flavor of rare that is meaningless. I lent my book on Giulias to a friend, but if I remember right, over 80,000 GT Jr. were made versus 14,000+ of the 1600 Veloce. I wouldn't have any concerns on a car with a larger engine installed as long as the original was still around and part of the deal. If not, I'd still consider a good rust free car, but would not pay top dollar for it.

I have to agree that the $1,000 mechanical budget is low. Get the best body you can afford, and fix the mechanicals as you can. You won't regret it. The best running engine is not much use when you can't change a tire and the rear trailing arms are falling off

Have fun looking and take your time. You'll find the right car.

[Gary Williams]

If the step front isn't a deal breaker, this car has everything else you're looking for: 1974 Gtv

It belongs to my son. He looked for ages before he found a car that was in really nice condition, then he improved it some more. Now a new house and new baby mean it's time for someone else to enjoy the GTV.

[hoov23]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to keep searching until I find the right car for the right price. I would prefer a GTV, but I wasn't sure why they seem to go for less in the various classifieds. It may be that the ones I saw were mainly 74s in the 12-16k range. I am definitely interested in a step-front two-headlight car, preferably in red. I had read that the brakes were updated in 67, so for original cars I was thinking 67-68 GT or GTV or 67-70 Jr (custom cars would modify the year range). I'm not really convinced that I should pay as much for a Jr as a GTV in the same condition, so I'll just keep watching the market for a few weeks. Also looking for a Fiat 500R at the same time, and buying a Smart next week. Just sold my Elise, and my 95 Jag V12 coupe (1/50) is going away on Monday, so I want to mix it up this summer.
David - if you're in the Baltimore area, where do you take your car for work - Radcliffe, DiFatta, ?

-Chris

[emerald]

Hi Chris,

I'm down in Annapolis. I do all my own work short of actual machine shop stuff. That aside, I've bought parts from DiFatta here and there and know a few people who have had their cars serviced there and were happy. Feel free to PM me if you want phone number etc. and want to chat about any of this stuff. If you want to buzz down the road and check out what I'm up to on the '67 (or anything else) you are more than welcome to.

[Alfajay]

Chris had asked: "I'm confused about pricing between the Sprint GT, 1300 Junior, and the 1600 GTV. Seems to me that Juniors are pulling a premium over the more powerful and rare Veloce. Is that the case, and if so, why? What are the plusses and minuses of the three late-60s GTs?"

Chris: You are looking for an "orderly market" when in fact, none exists. These cars are sold in small numbers, and in such varying condition, that you won't find much logic in what cars sell for based on model and condition.

Shopping on ebay is fun, and you will learn something, but in my opinion is should not be the only - or even the primary - place that you look. My recommendation would be to get plugged in to the local Alfa community, and get the word out about what you are looking for. Offers like the one from emerald to share Alfa lore with you are invaluable. I would also monitor the local Craigslist, newspaper classifieds, club newsletter ads, etc.

You had also asked: "it seems that there are so many early cars with the 1750 engine - is there a problem with the 1300 & 1600?"

There certainly isn't a problem with the smaller engines. HOWEVER, you need to understand that they are small, low torque, high revving powerplants - the complete opposite of US V8's and most modern engines. You aren't going to impress your girlfriend by out-accelerating that Porsche in your 1300cc Sprint. Also, a lot of us Alfisti are engineers or tinkerers - we like to modify our cars (I have a 2 liter in my Sprint) - so many cars have received engine transplants just because the owner enjoyed the project. Similarly, putting later brakes on an early 105 is a common modification. In general, these modifications don't detract from the value of Alfas - nothing is irreversably changed, and the market doesn't seem to care about "matching numbers" the way that Corvette and Porsche buyers do.

Regarding your budget: The total price may be realistic, though I'm puzzled why you care about its components (eg, how much you pay initially vs. how much you need to spend on mechanicals to make it reliable). I wouldn't discount a car that is sound but has been off the road for a long time, that might be bought for $8K but needs $6K worth of freshening. Also, don't be too fixated on the car's color - there are only a few of these cars around, and they look great in a variety of colors.

Hope that helped! Welcome aboard

[Gary Williams]

Chris, I think you're wise to look for a car that's in really fine condition. The other guys who've already responded give good advice regarding prices and the importance of buying a car with the excellent body and paint, even if the mechanicals aren't perfect.

As for choosing between models, it's a matter of taste, because the prices of the various iterations of GT are based on condition, as has been noted earlier. The cars are essentially the same. Brakes, engines, trannys and other pieces can be, and are, frequently interchanged with other models of GT and Spider.

For instance, my '67 GTV --purchased from the original owner in 1983 -- has a stock body, but now runs an engine from a later model GT or Spider, transmission from a later model Spider, front brakes from a Milano and rears from a later Spider, wheels from an '83 Spider, and an upgraded suspension from Alfaholics. It also has a Milano alternator in place of the old generator and an electronic ignition, which came stock in later Alfas.

Even if looking for a car that's original to factory specs, I wouldn't worry about changes like I've noted if the car's body and interior are in great shape. Mechanical changes can usually be reduced back to the stone age without much trouble, but body work and paint require tearing the car apart to do it right.

And we all know that you can't take the car apart without finding things that require replacing, refreshing, or making more pretty. That starts the whole restoration cycle that many of us know so well. Some of my car's story is chronicled here: Home | Old Site