Odd Steering problem - Burman box

[nimbus]

Hi there!

I have an odd problem with the steering on my 1750 GTV mk1!
Maybe some of you have some knowledge to share on this issue.

While parked, the Hellebore steering wheel is exactly in middle position with
the spokes perfectly horizontal.
Wheels are straight and amount of play is absolutely normal when checking by
activating the steering wheel.
Taking the car on the road, situations is the same - its driving perfectly straight without pulling to either left nor right.

Everything fine - BUT!
Having the car parked, and forcing the steering to the left until outer position is reached on the steering wheel, the problem occurs.
Taking the car onto the road again, the steering wheel is now positioned just a little bit to the left - and it IS just slightly.
At the same time steering has been affected, as the car is now running straight forward, with the stering wheel pointing slightly little to the left.
Stopping the car again, forcing the steering to the right outer position, will
bring the steering straight again.

I've had the center cap off the steering wheel and checked if something
moves while the steering is forced to outer positions left and right.
Steering wheel, center nut and securing plate underneath is not moving
at all - everything tight.
Having a friend turning the steering wheel, and myself lying under the car,
gave no visible evidence that any part of the steering linkage was behaving badly.
Would it be possible that I'm not able to see present play when checking this way?
Two years ago the idler box was replaced with a new box modified with
ball bearings for better control of the shaft within - so I do not make this box a suspect of the crime.
And - for what I've learned - worn out linkage ball joints in the steering will affect the play in the steering wheel completely different with play present
all the time.
Or am I wrong there?

Please don't tell me it's the Burman box causing trouble, as this would be
worst case scenario.
On the other hand I find it difficult to see how this unit would make this
problem occur!

Every input from you is mostly welcome - thanks

Bye
Jesper

[Andrew]

Sounds like something is moving jamming when you turn full left. Have you checked:
* Each tie rod end (all six)?
* That the pitman arm on the bottom of the steering box fits OK, is not moving on the spline, and its nut is tight?
* Steering box is firmly mounted to chassis, and chassis is not overly flexing?

I would get under there and wiggle/pry everything some more, though it sounds like you have done that. This is a tough one. I too hope it's not the steering box itself.

Andrew

[nimbus]

Thanks Andrew!

I've been at the car again, checking the nuts holding box and idler unit to
the chassis - all nuts tight as tight should be.
Checking Burman box while my wife gave the steering wheels turns to
outer positions, gave no evidence that chassis is to blame, as the box
doesn't move at all.

I think you are right - have to check tie rods or the whole steering once more.

But i simply can't figure out why the issue is not constant play in the steering - but instead inaccuracy coming and going as described, and it's
not really play, just something moving the position of the steering.
If the spline should be dead, play on the pitman arm would also be present
constantly and not only sometimes - don't you agree on that?

[Andrew]

Yes, I agree it's an odd situation and the intermittent nature of the problem is puzzling.

I just wonder if something is jamming hard on the full left lock? I don't know the guts of the Burman box well, but unfortunately can imagine the recirculating mechanism or a bearing shifting under load at extreme travel. Not what any of us would want to think about.

Do you have an Alfa chassis specialist nearby, before you resort to removing the steering box?

Andrew

[green 69 gtv]

Nimbus,
I don't have an answer but am very interested in the problem you are having. On my car, I was using Papajam's string method to adjust alignment. The directions are posted elsewhere on the BB. The first step is to lock the steering wheel and when done, the wheel is perfectly centered. After doing this, I adjusted the road wheels to be perfectly straight, and then made fine adjustment for proper toe-in. I took the car for a drive and had no pulling to either side and very little play in the steering, but going straight, the steering wheel was no longer centered! The situation hasn't changed after about 5K miles. Haven't rechecked the alignment but my guess is that it will now be straight only with the steering wheel cocked about 15 degrees off center (counterclockwise). Not trying to change your thread--only sharing what might be a related problem.
John

[Andrew]

How the car tracks and how the wheel is centered is affected by toe, but also by caster and camber, and the cumulative effect of cross-caster and camber (variation from side to side), which you can't check with string. Also affected by road crown and the like, but that doesn't sound like what's going on here if you're 15 degrees off over 5K miles.

I believe alignment shops normally set the toe exactly, but dial in slight caster differences to allow for road crown drift. Can anyone more knowledgeable than me comment? (Thread is beginning to drift too, from original topic.)

Andrew

[green 69 gtv]

Thanks Andrew,
I'll move this to a different thread.
John

[nimbus]

Well!
I drove my car to work this morning (Denmark, Europe time).
Steering wheel in perfect position and car going totally straight.
No play on wheels and immidiate action when touching the steering.
In fact I belive many outthere would be very happy to have such little
play in their steering.
And yet I know that there is a problem in the steering - as it can go out
of position, with forced action on the steering while car standing.

I'm going slightly mad!!!