New production lenses for GTV

116_Veloce · #1 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 09:03 AM

This is a project a good colleague of mine in Italy with a serious, veteran plastic factory made, I assisted with sourcing out material and a used lens. Today I got the first samples.

The quality is exceptional, OE level finish and detail. We still need to stamp the part #s and some other markings on the lens, as you will all notice the top part is empty for now. this is one of the first samples out of the injection molding machine.

I asked before if someone could please find me the original OLD ALFA PART # (105.xx.xxx.xx....) as we want to stamp it in the mold.

If everything goes well we will start marketing this in a couple of months.

norm_86veloce · #2 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 09:32 AM

This is good news because there are some lenses out there but prices aren't what I would consider competitive. As you probably know Alfa used different lenses on US models than Euro models & over different model years depending on the market. This looks like a repro of a US GTV 2000 front turn indicator lens that was used on GTVs 72-74 but also on later Spiders (I believe 75-82) & Berlinas. I have an Alfa parts manual for the 105 & 115-series but am afraid to give you a part number from there for fear it is wrong. My 73 GTV 2000 (US model) is 2 hrs away but I can give you the correct number from the lens when I return home Thursday if that will help. Are you going to mfg other lenses, e.g. US model tail light lenses?

**ossodiseppia** · #3 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 116_Veloce

This is a project a good colleague of mine in Italy with a serious, veteran plastic factory made, I assisted with sourcing out material and a used lens. Today I got the first samples.

The quality is exceptional, OE level finish and detail. We still need to stamp the part #s and some other markings on the lens, as you will all notice the top part is empty for now. this is one of the first samples out of the injection molding machine.

I asked before if someone could please find me the original OLD ALFA PART # (105.xx.xxx.xx....) as we want to stamp it in the mold.

If everything goes well we will start marketing this in a couple of months.

116_Veloce · #4 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 10:22 AM

Yes, these are ofcourse for the USA cars, as the euro cars had totally different units. And so indeed I intend these lenses for the Giulia GTV 2000, early Alfetta/GTV, Spider up to late '81 and Berlina, like norm said.

I decided to have these made as they have been missing for so many years off the shelves, and I don't like repros in epoxy resin, they are expensive for what they are and mostly of inferior quality. This is made like OE lenses, we copied a used 'CARELLO' lens. Lucky for my Milanese contacts I managed to avoid high-4/low-5 figure costs in EUR for the injection mold...

osso thank you for the part#, we will stamp it on the lower side. I am now also working on finding the white rubber profile used as the gasket as I'd like to supply the lenses with the gasket if I'm able.

There are always other repros in mind, depends if you want to take a risk on production costs vs. sales, we shall see how this one goes.
rear lenses for the GTV? I'll need so many orders in advance, the costs of tooling for such an intricate part is horrendous.

**papajam** · #5 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 10:23 AM

A very nice looking piece, Uri!

My thought on the part number though is that it may not be an Alfa 105/115xxx number but a Carello/Altissimo part number. I'll see if the books show anything...

**ossodiseppia** · #6 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 116_Veloce

Yes, these are ofcourse for the USA cars, as the euro cars had totally different units. And so indeed I intend these lenses for the Giulia GTV 2000, early Alfetta/GTV, Spider up to late '81 and Berlina, like norm said.

I decided to have these made as they have been missing for so many years off the shelves, and I don't like repros in epoxy resin, they are expensive for what they are and mostly of inferior quality. This is made like OE lenses, we copied a used 'CARELLO' lens. Lucky for my Milanese contacts I managed to avoid high-4/low-5 figure costs in EUR for the injection mold...

osso thank you for the part#, we will stamp it on the lower side. I am now also working on finding the white rubber profile used as the gasket as I'd like to supply the lenses with the gasket if I'm able.

There are always other repros in mind, depends if you want to take a risk on production costs vs. sales, we shall see how this one goes.

116_Veloce · #7 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 02:25 PM

True, the CARELLO part # is 16.460.717, but since it's not CARELLO and my Italian friend is a straight-thinking guy with respect to his other Italian industry-mates, he doesn't want to stamp that on the lens. That's why we thought about the alfa part #. We want to use the other markings like "MADE IN ITALY" and there will be a font identical to the CARELLO one for the marque, (unless I can coax him to stamp otherwise).

BTW - WHICH Ferrari does it fit, anybody knows?

norm_86veloce · #8 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 02:51 PM

Apparently lenses had to comply with local law and regulation so there were multiple lenses & light assemblies to accomplish the same function in the same model year(s), e.g. front turn indicators. My parts book is pretty comprehensive and purportedly official Alfa but none of the front turn lenses pictured are exactly like the US version. All are either 2-piece lenses or have partitions to accommodate separate parking and turn indicator bulbs unlike the US lenses that was unpartitioned and accommodated a standard US double-filament bulb. Therefore, I'm reluctant to give you one of the part numbers from my catalog because I don't think the US version lens is shown. If the number printed on the US lenses themselves are Carello numbers, I'm afraid I'm stumped (at least for now). Did you try Centerline or IAP. Both carry US version lenses like the prototype you pictured. Maybe they'll give you an Alfa part number.

116_Veloce · #9 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 02:57 PM

I can ask Alfa Parts in CA, but I trust what papajam said. I'm sure they're all the same. or maybe we can give up the part # alltogether. I hope to be smarter tomorrow after I talk to my Milanese friend.

**papajam** · #10 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 03:52 PM

The US version 2000 parts book confirms that Carello #16.460.717 is indeed the correct lens part number. And it would appear that the lens fits both LH and RH light assemblies. There is not enough detail in the parts pic to show any lens markings.
Although I'm not familiar with the 2000 lenses, I've never seen an Alfa part number on any Carello or Altissimo lens. If this holds true for this lens, then an Alfa part number on it would be incorrect from a concourse standpoint. Perhaps someone can post a pic of this lens?
And since it's for a US market car, there should be an 'SAE' (with the number 70 I'll guess) marking as well.

**ossodiseppia** · #11 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajam

The US version 2000 parts book confirms that Carello #16.460.717 is indeed the correct lens part number. And it would appear that the lens fits both LH and RH light assemblies. There is not enough detail in the parts pic to show any lens markings.
Although I'm not familiar with the 2000 lenses, I've never seen an Alfa part number on any Carello or Altissimo lens. If this holds true for this lens, then an Alfa part number on it would be incorrect from a concourse standpoint. Perhaps someone can post a pic of this lens?
And since it's for a US market car, there should be an 'SAE' (with the number 70 I'll guess) marking as well.

norm_86veloce · #12 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 08:01 PM

I can take a picture of a US GTV 2000 lens Fri when I get home to my car. The US lenses are interchangeable right & left but I never paid close attention to the markings. I know I just bought a pair of front turn signal assemblies complete with lenses that were advertised by a reputable Alfa recycler as for a 75-82 US Spider 2000 and they match exactly those equipped on the 72-74 GTV 2000. The US GTV front turn signals were changed in 72 when they transitioned from the GTV 1750 that ran from 68-71, although some of the GTV 2000 changes started showing up on the 71 GTV 1750 that was a transition year, like the wider tail lights and bumpers with overriders. If I can figure out how to post a picture on this Website, I'll do it Fri or this weekend.

scottalfa · #13 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 08:09 PM

Does this help any?

norm_86veloce · #14 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 08:39 PM

Spot on! May I ask in what reference you found this diagram? I have quite a few period references but none as specific as this one appears to be to US models. I have the Alfa Catalogo Rapido Ricambi (Short Spare Parts Catalog) and it lists a lens #105.51.65.011.00 with a note that it is for Germany but the picture shows an obvious partitioned lens accommodating 2 separate bulbs. Otherwise, that lens and turn signal assembly looks to be the same as the US version with exception of the US single bulb configuration.

scottalfa · #15 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 09:10 PM

Very poor quality with my bad skills as well, but we can see the markings near the screw holes. One side says SAE...Screw...IP 69. Below that, CARELLO. (with their logo-type lettering) Other side says 16.460.717 above the screw hole. MADE IN ITALY to the left of hole. the whole lense is set at an angle so as to flip over and hug the turn of the bumper i guess. My model came off my 74 US GTV, which to my knowledge is the original one, BUT we've heard that before!