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07-10-2007, 08:42 AM
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AlfaBB Addict
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Location: Austin, TX , USA
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by 180OUT
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If you can peel the OEM veneers off in reasonable condition, it really isn't all that difficult to make trim pieces yourself. You can buy sheets of venners which look like the the OEM Alfa pieces and then cut them to fit using your original pieces as a pattern. Furniture makers/restorers, musical instrument makers, boat builders, really all kinds of wood workers do this sort of thing all the time. I have a couple of guitar maker buddies that can do it, although they complain bitterly about being made to stoop so low to do that kind of work and remind me incessantly that they are _only_ doing this for me, etc., etc. If you can put up with the occasional whining, the above kinds of folks can probably do the job for you for not much money. 
If the wood itself isn't damaged (scratches and holes), you can probably even refinish it on the car. A light sanding with very fine paper and a careful refinish can transform grotty looking Alfa interior veneers. |
__________________
Peter
Currently:
'67 Duetto
'69 Euro 1750 GTV
Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider
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07-10-2007, 01:01 PM
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
wow, that is a great suggestion....I looked at the veneer kits, and they're expensive...sheets on the other hand are not! What was the original wood for the 69 GTV's, does anyone know? Was it Mahogany??[/QUOTE
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Peter, I think it was Mahogany. In any event, I've seen Mahogany veneer used as a replacement and it looks great. I've also seen OEM finishes ranging from lighter to dark on the same model cars. Given Alfa's penchant for using whatever was avaliable some variation can be expected. FYI For cleaning and polishing delicate guitar finishes (French polish especially) I use Mguire's #9 Swirl Remover. It's great for cleaning (you can even work out minor imperfections) but it won't harm the finish. It will probably do a similar job on Alfa's veneers.
__________________
Jim
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'70, 1750GTV, 2nd series
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
Last edited by 180OUT; 07-10-2007 at 01:04 PM.
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07-10-2007, 03:06 PM
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thx mr 18out...thats great advice...I just dont have the veneer pieces in any condition to re-fabricate the template..does anyone know exactly what of timber it should be?
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07-10-2007, 03:09 PM
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sorry...should have red the rest of the thread......? But I would presume the mahogany is quite dark....they seem much lighter than that....
Papjam...what did Joe tell you about the type of timber?
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07-10-2007, 03:30 PM
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Location: Chicago Suburbs
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I'm a woodworker, so a bit of warning: "Mahogany" is a very large family of quite varied wood species. Natural color ranges from Orange to Pink and the grain from quite coarse to very refined, so one can't just go into a hardwood lumber store anywhere in the world, ask for Mahogany and expect to get the same thing. People often see antique mahogany furniture with a very dark stain applied and (quite reasonably) assume that is the natural color.
The bigger question here is how true to original color and figure (what most people in U.S. refer to as "grain") do you want to achieve or are you happy with something close which looks nice? If you must have concours precision, you may have to settle for the more expensive original (if it's available at all). I tend to agree with the above post- doubting A.R. would have been all that picky day-to-day and a variety of factors will, by now, make it pretty much impossible to determine just exactly what the precisely correct color should be.
All the above said, I'm going home tonight and look at my '74 GTV dash and try myself to determine what it is. My recommendation on finish is a gel varnish. Easy to apply, won't run or drip, and available in a variety of colors. If you go the route of cutting your own panels from veneer, you'll have plenty of scrap for color experiments.
Will post again after looking at my car...
__________________
'74 GTV, '01 Audi A4 2.8Q
'08 Audi A3 3.2Q
Last edited by spacechem; 07-10-2007 at 04:56 PM.
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07-10-2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMD159
sorry...should have red the rest of the thread......? But I would presume the mahogany is quite dark....they seem much lighter than that....
Papjam...what did Joe tell you about the type of timber?
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__________________
Phil
1961 MGA 1600 Roadster, British Racing Green
1966 Giulia Sprint GT ,Argento
1970 1750 GTV s2, Verde Olivo Metallica (AR213)
2005 Holden Rodeo LT Crew Cab, Fox Fire Red
{Oo==V==oO}
Previously owned
1983 Ford Laser KB, Beige
1985 Volvo 360 GLT Dark Mettalic Blue
1970 GT Junior stepnose Resprayed Red, Giallo Ochre
1923 Amilcar Sports, rusty
I may only own two ALFAs now, but the handle stays as I am always chasing another one. 
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07-10-2007, 07:15 PM
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cheers gentlemen....thanks for your help and look forward to your feedback
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07-10-2007, 07:43 PM
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I just did a centerline wood installation and it's very good quality....oh and it is a mahoganny....mid brown.
I also looked at getting it from the UK from Chris Sweetapple at Highwood....he told me...and he has never proven to be an augmentor of the truth... that the kits that he gets are v high quality.
I also looked at getting veneer and doing the job myself (that means finding someone who knows what they are doing) but found that the veneers that I could find were not long enough to cover the whole area.
So I did what any self respecting spendthrift would do..I bought the kit.
Incidently the gentleman that has fitted it for me decided to install it with the plastic protective covering still intact and the last time I spoke to him he was figuring out how to remove it by tomorrow when I piick the beast up.
If there are scratches on it as a result of his mistake I will stamp my feet and whine like a petulent schoolgirl.......
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Kribensis
montreal, canada.
gtv 71
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07-10-2007, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
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If there are scratches on it as a result of his mistake I will stamp my feet and whine like a petulent schoolgirl.......
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And that will certainly show him!
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Jim
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'70, 1750GTV, 2nd series
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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07-10-2007, 08:53 PM
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Took a look at my car and still can't say for sure what it is. I think it's Sapele, also called sapele mahogany, not to be confused with the more commonly available Honduras mahogany (propably what Centerline is offering) or the to-be-avoided Phillipine mahogany- much more coarse in texture. A unique feature of Sapele is that the grain direction changes at regular intervals, causing a subtle striped effect. Now, the dash insert is too narrow to notice any striping, but my console definitely shows it. P.O. must have had a radio mounted on it, as there is a pronounced shadow of darker wood and some leftover screw holes.
So much for More-Information-Than-You-Wanted. Some useful info: Rockler has pressure-sensitive mahogany veneer 24" x 96" for $63 U.S. - enough to do at least a couple of cars with some left over for finish tests and a coupla mistakes.
If you go shopping for veneers, take along a small bottle of Mineral Spirits and wipe on a little bit to see how the wood will look with a clear finish...
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'74 GTV, '01 Audi A4 2.8Q
'08 Audi A3 3.2Q
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07-10-2007, 08:56 PM
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Re The protective plastic covering on the veneer mentioned by 180OUT.
When I removed the original veneer from the dash there was a plastic covering on it from when the car was new ( Im the second owner so its unlikely it had been replaced by the PO). I wonder if the plastic cover is meant to be left in place? I removed it before I had time to think too much about it and applied a stain to match the steering wheel. Just a thought.
Bill
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07-10-2007, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZe
Re The protective plastic covering on the veneer mentioned by 180OUT.
When I removed the original veneer from the dash there was a plastic covering on it from when the car was new ( Im the second owner so its unlikely it had been replaced by the PO). I wonder if the plastic cover is meant to be left in place? I removed it before I had time to think too much about it and applied a stain to match the steering wheel. Just a thought.
Bill
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Bill, my car definitely doesn't have a plastic covering and its veneer is very original. The original finish has shrunk into the wood and you can see the wood's grain lightly showing through on the surface. I know what you are talking about re: the plastic covering and I'm now wonder whether or not some cars had it and others didn't.
It's good we have some real woodworkers reading this who know about refenishing. I can do a little, but I'm not an expert.
__________________
Jim
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'70, 1750GTV, 2nd series
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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07-10-2007, 11:13 PM
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacechem
Took a look at my car and still can't say for sure what it is. I think it's Sapele, also called sapele mahogany, not to be confused with the more commonly available Honduras mahogany (propably what Centerline is offering) or the to-be-avoided Phillipine mahogany- much more coarse in texture. A unique feature of Sapele is that the grain direction changes at regular intervals, causing a subtle striped effect. Now, the dash insert is too narrow to notice any striping, but my console definitely shows it. P.O. must have had a radio mounted on it, as there is a pronounced shadow of darker wood and some leftover screw holes.
So much for More-Information-Than-You-Wanted. Some useful info: Rockler has pressure-sensitive mahogany veneer 24" x 96" for $63 U.S. - enough to do at least a couple of cars with some left over for finish tests and a coupla mistakes.
If you go shopping for veneers, take along a small bottle of Mineral Spirits and wipe on a little bit to see how the wood will look with a clear finish...
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Ok showed the veneer to my antiques restorer who trained in the UK at the right schools for this stuff, his professional opinion is that the original stuff is North American Black Walnut, we compared grain with a piece of Blk walnut veneer that he had there and we are both satisfied that this is what it is. End of discussion, this guy really knows his timbers.
That being the case I am going to get him to make me up new pieces for my upper and lower console, as the stuff in my dash is perfect and I like the perfectly oxidised faded patina that is on the dash veneer (hey I am an antique dealer, this is what I do), the stuff on the console upper and lower is water damaged and split. I am doing this as I can be assured of a perfect colour match if he does it, whereas I am not sure what we will get from pre cut pre-fab, pre-polished new stuff.
And the best part is that it will cost me nothing. Its like my steering wheel, to restore that cost me 20 bucks and a case of beer. A French polisher mate did it for me, its perfect and given that I was quoted $600 by people who specialise in redoing steering wheels,well they can just get stuffed.
__________________
Phil
1961 MGA 1600 Roadster, British Racing Green
1966 Giulia Sprint GT ,Argento
1970 1750 GTV s2, Verde Olivo Metallica (AR213)
2005 Holden Rodeo LT Crew Cab, Fox Fire Red
{Oo==V==oO}
Previously owned
1983 Ford Laser KB, Beige
1985 Volvo 360 GLT Dark Mettalic Blue
1970 GT Junior stepnose Resprayed Red, Giallo Ochre
1923 Amilcar Sports, rusty
I may only own two ALFAs now, but the handle stays as I am always chasing another one.
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07-11-2007, 07:17 AM
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Whoa there, Three. Not quite end of discussion. I think we are proving 180Out's point: AR probably used different veneers for different model years (perhaps day-to-day). My '74 is definitely not ABW, but I recognize your '70 is closer to the '69 in question, and I doubt not the veracity of your friend. It reminds me of the old story of the three blind men and the elephant, only this time one blind man is touching an elephant, one a rhino, and maybe the car in question is a hippo. Any '69 model year owners out there willing to pipe up?
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'74 GTV, '01 Audi A4 2.8Q
'08 Audi A3 3.2Q
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07-11-2007, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacechem
Whoa there, Three. Not quite end of discussion. I think we are proving 180Out's point: AR probably used different veneers for different model years (perhaps day-to-day). My '74 is definitely not ABW, but I recognize your '70 is closer to the '69 in question, and I doubt not the veracity of your friend. It reminds me of the old story of the three blind men and the elephant, only this time one blind man is touching an elephant, one a rhino, and maybe the car in question is a hippo. Any '69 model year owners out there willing to pipe up?
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__________________
Peter
Currently:
'67 Duetto
'69 Euro 1750 GTV
Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider
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