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07-05-2007, 12:18 AM
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FMD159,
Still wondering why you asked for our opinion ... ? 
You had your mind made up anyway and dare I say this asking for somebody elses opinion on this subject will cause this problem. One of the great things about cars is there are many different enthusiasts that get many different things from them AND I have found this can cause fireworks.
Thus there is no way a car could be restored by a committee ... all members would kill each other long before the car was finished 
Now this is completely different from asking for somebodies help, ie. how was it done originally?, or I can't work something out ... etc.
Thus this site like ALL automotive sites is great for helping you out, but opinions ... hmmm, well lets just say we are all passionate with our views 
Best
Pete |
07-05-2007, 12:59 AM
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Sir PSk...please don't get me started again....  Yes I did ask for opinions assuming I would receive educated, intelligent and meaningful feedback....which indeed I have definitely received and value greatly...but there is a difference when it comes to derogatory, uninformed feedback which leads to personal comments.....BUT THIS IS IN THE PAST....I too wish to call a truce and take on the advice of others to stop the BS and I accept whole heartily the apology made by threealfas...thats very big of him!!! 
Now back to business...earlier in my thread I included a spreadsheet (ill attach again) and was looking for successful restorers (within budget and on time....yes they do exist!!!  ) who have obviously been down this road before and would have some kind of template of a complete audit of a similar vehicle to my 69 1750...I have partly completed this spreadsheet but thought that there must be someone out there thats done this.....I have received some fantastic feedback from one such successful restorer "Zunige" who has done something similar...Im calling on the rest of the wealth of knowledge out there for some help also...
As explained to Zunige ...regarding the immediate work on my project.....the body work is scheduled to begin 3 weeks from this week and I am just doing some ground work before this actually starts...therefore I haven't really started anything physically yet...apart from stripping the car and polishing some of the stainless steel components....
I plan to base the timing of this project around completion of the body work and have advised the panel works guy to work on an agreed 6-8 month time frame...
This will give me time to work out all the bits I have, the bits I need, time for stripping and reworking the Engine, Gearbox, Differential and other major mechanical components, shipping time for new parts etc etc. All the mechanical work will be done by my Father and myself...seeing my Pop has been a mechanic on these cars for 40+ years...then have the big coming together deadline with the newly finished body/engine and rest of the build....
...Bearing in mind, I'm thinking that I will plant the motor in soon as the engine bay and undercarriage is complete...then the body works guy will continue with the external spray work...in an effort to avoid accidental scratching and dents later on trying to drop the engine in....but not sure how this will work with the 2 pack spray job and the baking oven.....  anyone got any ideas/opinions on this....?
But I want to be prepared to ensure I meet this deadline...so I start with reviewing all the suppliers....audit the vehicle (my spreadsheet) and plan the next tasks well in advance based on what is needed to be done...
Anyone done some similar planning with spreadsheets?
Maybe we can collectively create a template audit of most components for these cars which would be a great starting point for any restorer......if it hasn't already been done before...???
.basically similar to a complete "bill of materials" of the car that would need to have been created and checked off when the cars were first produced on the production line...if we could recreate or source something like this...that would be special!!  |
07-05-2007, 01:13 AM
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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Deadlines!! Holy Crap
All I know is that my car will be finished on Thursday at 4:30pm. Just in time for a beer.
It was actually supposed to be finished last Xmas, but then we got the paint off and all had mild coronary events when we saw what was uncovered. Now I just say 'take your time, when it's finished it's finished'. So far I've spent double what I thought it would take to have it finished, and the body isn't even painted
Then there is the engine to finish, and the interior, and the wiring, and the certification because it's been off the road so damn long. Aw heck. Better stop. Feeling depressed
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Graham
Director, New Zealand Branch - Scuderia Non Originale
1970 GTJr - The saga continues!!
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07-05-2007, 01:20 AM
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as i said i was wanting responses from successful restorers
Joking.....yes there is an elemnt of luck...based on the condition of the body when its revield.......thats why you put some padding in your plan...6-8 months....to accomodate the unforseen problems.
...budgets...thats another monster which you learn to balance these...spend more here...cut over there...but you cant really cut...so you you just spend more....!!! |
07-05-2007, 01:34 AM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by FMD159
Anyone done some similar planning with spreadsheets?
Maybe we can collectively create a template audit of most components for these cars which would be a great starting point for any restorer......if it hasn't already been done before...???
.basically similar to a complete "bill of materials" of the car that would need to have been created and checked off when the cars were first produced on the production line...if we could recreate or source something like this...that would be special!! |
Ok here is what I did, and I will have to describe it in words as I am a MAC user and refuse to use any MS products when ever possible, so this might be tricky for the moment.
Basically down one axis I listed every single engine component that I required, highlighting mulitples were necessary (ie inlet valves or springs).
Now on the across axis I listed every single parts place that I planned to deal with and set up a subsection and macro to show contact and ph details. I grouped these suppliers as follows UK, QLD,NSW,VIC,SA, OTHER. Each supplier was colour coded, more on this later.
I should stress that I left provision on the down axis for parts that my mechanic suddenly decided that we should replace (ie Oil pump) or the part that arrived was wrong (i.e big end size) and on the across axis for new leads incase I had to find a new supplier for a specific part.
In the cells I set them up to include. Price inc GST, shipping cost an asterix and ref number denoted a choice where multiple brands were available for a specific part ie Borgo or Mondial pistons and liners. From memory I also had some coding for New, reconditioned or 2nd hand
It worked very well and because each supplier was colour coded after making my calls and getting quotes, I was able to look across each row and see the best price for each component. The best price was then highlighted in the colour of the correct supplier, so you could go across the sheet and see in one step. Then the calls were made and the parts got digitally cross off as they arrived and were approved.
I didn't get a lot of time to whip this up at work as my job as a Business Analyst keep me on my toes with deadlines and the usual stress, so I wanted to keep this as simple as possible. It worked well, I wanted to do another sheet where I group all parts by supplier and see if it would be easier to buy a part here in Brisbane like engine mounts that were say 60 AUD each as opposed to 55 AUD in Adelaide which may have been the best price but the weight would have killed on postage. I ended up just working this out visually and felt that it didn't warrant the time in setting it up.
My advice is spreadsheets are great but keep em simple. But an engine one was pretty straight forward as there as way less variables with a motor (less engineering) than body work. In anycase this was simply a components sheet, I imagine that doing one to manage time scales for work done and to be done will need a hell of a lot more planning and adhoc tweaking.
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Phil
1961 MGA 1600 Roadster, British Racing Green
1966 Giulia Sprint GT ,Argento
1970 1750 GTV s2, Verde Olivo Metallica (AR213)
2005 Holden Rodeo LT Crew Cab, Fox Fire Red
{Oo==V==oO}
Previously owned
1983 Ford Laser KB, Beige
1985 Volvo 360 GLT Dark Mettalic Blue
1970 GT Junior stepnose Resprayed Red, Giallo Ochre
1923 Amilcar Sports, rusty
I may only own two ALFAs now, but the handle stays as I am always chasing another one.
Last edited by Threealfas; 07-05-2007 at 01:37 AM.
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07-05-2007, 01:43 AM
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While I would not be considered a successful restorer , even though I have restored (term is flexible remember ) 2 cars and built a third, budgets are a complex thing.
Why?
Because things get lost, things that looked fine when you started look not good enough against the freshly painted body shell, etc. Also the term restoration means miles different to everybody, some consider a paint job to a be a complete restoration, while I consider returning a car to like new in every function to be a restoration.
I've heard that if you do do a budget that you should times the result by 3 and then you might come close. Personally I think of the money as being spent on my hobbie not on a car ... you will hardly ever make money restoring a car.
Pete |
07-05-2007, 03:21 AM
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I hear ya Pete!
Budget? Schedules?? Forget about it. I leave stressful $h!t like that at work where someone pays me to worry for them.
I'll finish when I finish it. It'll cost what I spend on it!
It'll never be finished, and I'll never stop spending!
If you don't understand, you don't have the passion. It makes sense to me and that's all that matters!
Oh and Pete, it's okay mate. Don't take the exclusion from the successful restorers club personally. It's all just opinions remember. 
We'll start our own club and my mum will bake us cookies.
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I love this car! I hate this car! ....._____
I love this car! I hate this car! ...(__ __)
I love this car! I hate this car! ...(______)
I love this car! I hate this car! ....(_____)
I think this car hates me! ............(____)
I will not be beaten by this car! ......(_)
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07-05-2007, 06:07 AM
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I'm with Colin, Pete and Phil. I did a stupid spreadsheet at the start of this exercise that served a great purpose - it made it clear what I was up against. After that - 95% inspiration Guys, I'm a bean-counter by profession, it don't get more anal than that - but even I recognise that this is an affair of the heart.
Hey, Colin, instead of your mum making cookies, can we meet at the pub?
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Gavin Cooke
'72 GTV 2000 (sold to a good home)
'70 GT Junior 1300 (suddenly a project car )
'00 156 Sportwagon 2.0 TS (daily)
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07-05-2007, 06:13 AM
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Sure Gav',
Gove or Alice Springs?
You start driving east now, I'll head west. See you somewhere in the middle
__________________
I love this car! I hate this car! ....._____
I love this car! I hate this car! ...(__ __)
I love this car! I hate this car! ...(______)
I love this car! I hate this car! ....(_____)
I think this car hates me! ............(____)
I will not be beaten by this car! ......(_)
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07-05-2007, 06:31 AM
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Nah, I've already set something up - once I'm done I'm putting the car on the Indian Pacific and then Phil and I are racing to the mid-point between Brissie and Melbourne: we figured the Nullarbor was way too boring for an Alfa... You can join in - maybe we end up in Byron for a beer with Ben and Arco!!
__________________
Gavin Cooke
'72 GTV 2000 (sold to a good home)
'70 GT Junior 1300 (suddenly a project car )
'00 156 Sportwagon 2.0 TS (daily)
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07-05-2007, 09:32 AM
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with the Librarian
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 7,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threealfas
but put most of it down to my sense of preservation for these great cars (especially Giallo Ochre 1750s)
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These cars are not on the endangered species list so if/when we purchase a second S1 GTV, it will be painted AR736 English Anthracite with correct amaranth interior, a hot 2l engine and a bunch of suspension and other mods that would have some purists issuing death threats. Why? Because it's my car and I want to. Besides, some future owner could always put it 'right' just like I'm doing now to 1352698.
FMD159,
I use a spreadsheet quite similar to yours except that I have only one suppliers column and enter the name of the single supplier for that particular part. I've found that many parts are acquired from many sources other than the usual Alfa vendors.
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Jim
Series 1 Euro 1750 GTV
Series 2 US 1750 GTV
Series 3 Spider Veloce
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07-05-2007, 04:35 PM
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thx threealfas.....Im prepared to do the time to get this spreadsheet done....I have already listed most of the components outside and in the cabin (visually)..I may have missed some..but will add in as I go...
I really would like to have a components list for the engine/electrical/suspension to include in my spreadsheet...whether I need to replace all not...just a complete bill of materials for the car....
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07-05-2007, 05:16 PM
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Maybe you should just get a copy of the excellent genuine Alfa Romeo parts catalogue ... ?
Drawings are great too.
Pete
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07-05-2007, 06:12 PM
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And if you do a search on one of my threads about manuals, you'll see how I scored a complete set of manuals for my car, including parts book, for free, couriered from Alfa in Italy!!
Photocopies mind you, but still fantastic. Body, drivetrain, engine, parts, suspension, and owners manual.
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Graham
Director, New Zealand Branch - Scuderia Non Originale
1970 GTJr - The saga continues!!
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07-05-2007, 10:33 PM
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