1969 GTV 1750 restoration

[njh1964]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMD159 Thats fantastic solution..just confirming, I have the centre console in my 69 model are you suggesting that this unit will replace the exisitng heater unit / concealed and I can use the original switching.. Would you integrate the original slider to controle the flaps and air flow (as per the second image below), and is the idea that the unit sit inside the original casing? (see attached)

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njh1964 Hi FMD15, I'm reasonably confident (based on provided dimensions) that the Speedy Air unit will fit up under the dash in my GT 1300 Junior, which does not have a centre console. I don't have access to a later model 105 with a centre console, but I guess anything is possible with patience and will power . Also, I can't imagine that the under dash area of later model 105s (ie even with the centre console) would be too much different to the earlier models. As for fresh air intake, I'm thinking that I'd remove the fresh air inlet flap assembly from the stock Alfa heater unit and attach this back into place on the underside/inside of the plenum chamber/scuttle inlet (ie keeping the stock fresh air cable in place to operate the flap and let fresh air in). I'm also thinking that, with some creative cutting and fibreglassing, it may be possible to direct the incoming fresh air from the stock flap assembly directly into the twin rotary fan air intakes on the back of the Speedy Air unit (ie kind of like your suggestion of installing the Speedy Air unit inside the stock Alfa unit). However, and alternatively, you could just use the stock fresh air flap to let fresh air into the general area under the dash, and this would ultimately find it's way into the Speedy Air unit intakes on its own. If you want to have the Speedy Air unit recycle cabin air for air con or heating for a while, you just close the fresh air flap... this would of course save having to open the quarter vent window in the rain to let in fresh air!! As for distributing the heated or cooled air from the Speedy Air unit, the four round outlet ducts on the front take flexible piping which allows you to send the output air wherever you want. For example, use two for windscreen defrosting, and the other two for dash vents. Speedy Air supplies period-looking dash vents and switch gear, but it would be much better (and I don't see why not) to reuse as much of the stock Alfa switch gear and venting as possible. You should definitely retain the stock Alfa heater tap (shown on the side of the stock unit in one of your photos), and this would mean you can keep the stock Alfa hot/cold slide lever, as well as the stock fresh/recycle air lever. I'm sure there is quite a bit of work involved, but, hey, we wouldn't own Alfas if we didn't like rolling up the sleeves every now and again. Cheers, Nick

[njh1964]

Hi FMD159,

The TX valve is for the air con. The Speedy Air unit does not come with a heater tap, which of course is required to allow or block hot water coming from the engine into the heater core.

Cheers,


Nick

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njh1964 Hi FMD159, The TX valve is for the air con. The Speedy Air unit does not come with a heater tap, which of course is required to allow or block hot water coming from the engine into the heater core. Cheers, Nick

[njh1964]

Maybe get a similar flange with a 90 degree bend soldered onto the copper hot water inlet pipe on the Speedy Air unit, so that you could attach the Alfa heater tap directly to that?

Alternatively, cut the flange off the Alfa heater tap and join it to the Speedy Air unit with a length of heater hose and a couple of pipe clamps?

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njh1964 Hi FMD15, I'm reasonably confident (based on provided dimensions) that the Speedy Air unit will fit up under the dash in my GT 1300 Junior, which does not have a centre console. I don't have access to a later model 105 with a centre console, but I guess anything is possible with patience and will power . Also, I can't imagine that the under dash area of later model 105s (ie even with the centre console) would be too much different to the earlier models. As for fresh air intake, I'm thinking that I'd remove the fresh air inlet flap assembly from the stock Alfa heater unit and attach this back into place on the underside/inside of the plenum chamber/scuttle inlet (ie keeping the stock fresh air cable in place to operate the flap and let fresh air in). I'm also thinking that, with some creative cutting and fibreglassing, it may be possible to direct the incoming fresh air from the stock flap assembly directly into the twin rotary fan air intakes on the back of the Speedy Air unit (ie kind of like your suggestion of installing the Speedy Air unit inside the stock Alfa unit). However, and alternatively, you could just use the stock fresh air flap to let fresh air into the general area under the dash, and this would ultimately find it's way into the Speedy Air unit intakes on its own. If you want to have the Speedy Air unit recycle cabin air for air con or heating for a while, you just close the fresh air flap... this would of course save having to open the quarter vent window in the rain to let in fresh air!! As for distributing the heated or cooled air from the Speedy Air unit, the four round outlet ducts on the front take flexible piping which allows you to send the output air wherever you want. For example, use two for windscreen defrosting, and the other two for dash vents. Speedy Air supplies period-looking dash vents and switch gear, but it would be much better (and I don't see why not) to reuse as much of the stock Alfa switch gear and venting as possible. You should definitely retain the stock Alfa heater tap (shown on the side of the stock unit in one of your photos), and this would mean you can keep the stock Alfa hot/cold slide lever, as well as the stock fresh/recycle air lever. I'm sure there is quite a bit of work involved, but, hey, we wouldn't own Alfas if we didn't like rolling up the sleeves every now and again. Cheers, Nick

[njh1964]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMD159 Hello Nick I have come back from the garage and it appears that the Speedy Air unit is too big to assemble inside the bottom half of the original alfa heater unit. I do however like the idea of re-using/fixing the original fresh air inlet flap assembly, to retain the slider and cabling. I will then mount the Speedy Air unit directly below it... I will connect the fan to the original switch gear to control the fan speed. However there are some problems/questions that this presents: 1. From inspection, the lever that controls the flap for air inlet also controls the heater tap...when the flap is in one position the heater tap is closed and when it is in another position the heater tap is open to allow water to flow the heater core when operating the heater. The second original lever I understand only controls the direction of the air flow which will become redundant with this configuration as we are no longer using the bottom part of the original heater box where the air flow control flaps are. (see illustration attached from the manual) Having said this, operating the fresh air flap for a cooling situation doesn’t seem to work if the flap is in the position where the heater tap is open and allowing water through the core. 2. An additional control will also be required for the adjustable thermostat? 3. How is the cooling temperature controlled with this unit?

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njh1964 Hi FMD159, Ahh... nothing is ever simple. I guess Alfa linked the fresh air intake and the heater tap on the same control lever because you don't necessarily want cold fresh air coming into the cabin when you're trying to heat the cabin, and, conversely, you don't want hot water going into the heater core when you're trying to cool the cabin with fresh cold air... logical, given that the two objectives (ie heat or cool) are mutually exclusive. As a possible solution, perhaps you could use the fresh air lever to just control the fresh air flap and then use the redundant air flow direction lever to switch the heater tap on and off (or vise versa)... not aesthetically ideal perhaps, but it would still keep the dash gear looking original. I'm not sure if the Speedy Air unit has an adjustable thermostat. My guess is that you would control heating via the heater tap (ie how much hot water flows through the heater core... more hot water = higher cabin temperature??) and the air con would be either on or off (ie not adjustable). The flow of refrigerant gas is controlled by an electrically operated clutch on the compressor/pump drive pulley (ie when the clutch is disengaged, the coolant does not flow through the system into the air con core in the Speedy Air unit). You would need an additional (but simple) on/off switch somewhere on the dash to control the compressor clutch, so as to switch the air con system on or off. Obviously, on a hot day, if the fresh air flap was partially open, the air con cooling effect would be reduced by warm fresh air coming into the cabin through the flap. However, with the flap fully closed, recyled cabin air going through the air con core would optimise the air con cooling effect. Cranking the fan speed up to 3 would also optimise heating and cooling effects by increasing airflow through the heater or cooler cores. By the way, as I understand that you're in Queensland (as is Speedy Air), it might be worth visiting them if they are nearby to eyeball their gear. I'd be interested to get your feedback if you do this... me being down here in Melbourne. As previously mentioned, I've emailed and phoned Speedy Air a couple of times, and they seemed very helpful and knowledgable. Regards, Nick

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMD159 nick good ideas...going to my drawing baord to see how this would work... By the way Im also in Mlebourne

[njh1964]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMD159 Also, as per the diagram, the fresh air flap is more a air flow directional rather than an open close scenario...which means during cooling the external air will still be passing through...so I am not sure if this will still work... What are your thoughts?

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njh1964 Hi FMD159, Based on one of your earlier photos (see below), I assume that when "Lever 1" is pulled all the way down (ie to the right in your photo), then the "Fresh Air Flap" would be all the way up against the opening in the top of the heater assembly (ie fresh air flow would be cut off)??? If so, then this would be the way to control fresh air inflow with the Speedy Air unit in place. If not, then a modification to the standard fresh air flap assembly may be required so that it does cut off the fresh air inflow. Cheers, Nick

[njh1964]

It does seem strange that there is apparently no setting to completely block fresh air from coming into the cabin... but then Italians don't have a zillion kilometers of dirt tracks covered ankle deep in bulldust ... remind me not to take my Alfa into the Red Centre.

Looks like some creative cable work and bracketry will be required to modify the fresh air flap.


Nick

[FMD159]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njh1964 It does seem strange that there is apparently no setting to completely block fresh air from coming into the cabin... but then Italians don't have a zillion kilometers of dirt tracks covered ankle deep in bulldust ... remind me not to take my Alfa into the Red Centre. Looks like some creative cable work and bracketry will be required to modify the fresh air flap. Nick