Off road Alfa

Sneds 67 GT · #1 (**permalink**) 03-31-2007, 04:31 PM

Just thought I would enjoy the GT today, with my usual "spirited" jaunt through the countryside. Well, on "turn 4" of my usual river road journey, the rear end snapped around faster than I could stay on the steering- the car bounced backwards about 40 MPH, through a plowed field, and the car came to rest about 75 feet into the field. Luckily, there is little to no ditch, and I was able to drive the car out of the field, a little muddy. No vibrations and the car tracked like nothing had happened, very strait. Other than crappin' my britches, my question is if I hurt the motor. During the brief off road, my foot was as hard on the gas as the brake, as I was in a panic to get it stopped. I flashed a glance at the tach, I believe it was about pegged, I have no idea what RPM I hit, but I have never heard it scream like that before. Alot was happening in those brief few seconds!!!
What can I expect if I "spun" the motor to fast? Would I already have problems, or is this something that may take a bit to surface. The oil was at temp, and the rev was for a brief second or two. Everything seems fine so far, drove home about 7 miles or so with no abnormal sounds or vibrations.
Sprayed some mud off from under the car, there seems to be no damage, changed my pants and had a drink. At least now I know thats a second gear corner.

genericwood · #2 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 05:36 AM

You can rest easily. You probably did no damage except to your underwear! Your over-rev situation is akin to a badly missed shift. The most likely damage to occur would have been a valve floating and contacting a piston. If that were the case, you would know it by now. The lower end will normally handle some of this abuse, assuming it has oil pressure. Sounds like you did no damage.

Snap oversteer is rather unusual in a stock GTV. Did you drop the throttle right as you entered the turn. That will bring the rear around. If it wasn't a driver mistake, I would very carefully inspect your rear suspension (and tires) before driving hard again.

Erik

py105 · #3 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genericwood

Did you drop the throttle right as you entered the turn. That will bring the rear around.

**Zunige** · #4 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 08:44 AM

When you do serious damage, you can tell right away. You can stress metal by using it hard and also break it, but it doesn't sound like you have fatigued anything to the point of failure. All the internal components do have limits (which is why a stock engine has a redline of 6300 rpm, and racing engines use components made of materials that will tolerate much higher revs) so you are wise to be aware of that. I'm sure that in your case, you've caused some wear, but this doesn't mean that you've damaged the engine components. Just don't do it again!

Best regards,

Sneds 67 GT · #5 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 09:58 AM

I'm not certain what happened. I take that corner the same speed most of the time, I think I felt a little more of a bump (may have cut it a bit short) felt the rear raise just a bit but no warning of it snapping around, until I was backwards. Took the car out this morning, felt great, no problems. I will change the oil this week, hope I don't find anything in there. The road I use to shake the cars out is the only curvy road in the area, very lightly traveled, and fun. Thank goodness it's very forgiving in most corners, the one I lost it on is very flat with no ditch.
Thanks for the reply, my foot was against the throttle as it was on the brake, making for a big rev.

60sRacer · #6 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genericwood

Snap oversteer is rather unusual in a stock GTV. Did you drop the throttle right as you entered the turn. That will bring the rear around. Erik

genericwood · #7 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 05:01 PM

Robert, your comment about the motorcycle putting dirt on the road reminded me of the time I was out for a pleasure drive in the Giulietta. It was on the only somewhat curvy road I ever found in the far western Chicago suburbs. There was a tight decreasing radius corner with no trees or anything to block vision of the corner exit. On the straight just before the corner, I was passed by 3 very fast crotch rockets. As I saw them enter the corner, I hoped they knew what they were in for. None of them went down, but all 3 went at least 100 yards into the corn field on the outside of the corner. They were lucky it was early June and the corn was still short!

You know, with the Corvair, I would rather back one into a wall hard than hit the wall with the front. They are much stronger in the rear. Guess Nader never thought of that. We used to tow our Giulietta race car to the track when I was a kid behind a '65 Corsa.

Erik

60sRacer · #8 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 05:42 PM

Erik,

The strangest thing about the Nadar/Corvair issue is that the Porche 1600 Super of the same era had EXACTLY the same "Swing Axle" rear suspension, and was one of the great sports cars of the time BECAUSE of it - one of the earliest independent suspensions in sports cars.....

Robert

txcoyote · #9 (**permalink**) 04-01-2007, 06:20 PM

Nader, maybe he'll run for President again!

alfazagato · #10 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 09:57 AM

I am not certain I follow what happened. If you were braking hard and your foot was also on the throttle, were you left foot braking or one foot covering the two pedals? If it was the latter I would not expect that the travel on the brake would be greater than the travel on the throttle so, despite what it sounded like I would have thought you were not causing damage. You can put your mind at rest by re-creating the positions of the pedals, and see what additional motion there is left on the throttle pedal. Better luck next time!

Sneds 67 GT · #11 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 02:09 PM

I was wearing my jogging shoes, they are kinda wide, and as I attempted to brake, my foot was half on the brake, half on the throttle, I guess. I think I managed to clutch, I really can't remember. All I know is I hit enough throttle to really rev the motor, not sure how much brake I had in it. I drove the car to work today, all seemed ok. Size 11 Saucony jogging shoes are not the best to drive in, for me, and I also have learned that lesson. It's even worse for me in my Spider, I have to be careful of what shoes I wear when I drive in it. I think now that I may have been on the gas/brake to cause the slide, I don't know for certain.

alfazagato · #12 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 02:55 PM

oops-a-daisy!

PSk · #13 (**permalink**) 04-02-2007, 04:35 PM

If you really pegged the rev-counter, which I do not think you did

, then you may have cracked something like the crank.

Many, many years ago I missed a third to fourth shift on my race car during a test session. Thus my motor was at 8500 rpm and I got neutral instead of fourth and thus she spun really hard, indicating way passed (and I mean way passed) the top value of 10,000 rpm ... unfortunately my rev-limiter did nothing

. I estimate that this little Sud motor hit atleast 12,000 rpm!!! This was a 200hp 1600cc full race Sud motor.

The motor ran fine and I finished the test day. We checked all valve clearances and everything was fine. Next race meet the crank broke ... at ofcourse 8500-9000 rpm and destroyed just about everything

. We believe the huge rev cracked the crank ...

Note as alfazagato said if you had your foot on the brake as well then she may have free revved, but very unlikely to be as bad as mine as I had my foot planted to the floor ... until my brain kicked in and I lifted.

Best
Pete