Bobcor History and B & C sedan

[italcarguy]

Here are results from a B Sedan race at Riverside on Feb. 7, 1970 and point standings through July 3, 1970.

Stu, I'm not sure if they were running 1750's in B Sedan those years. I've never seen any written documentation saying so.

[OldAlfaGuy]

The 1750 engine became legal in B Sedan the same year the street version first went on sale in the US. That was 1969.

I found written correspondance from Bruce Perry, John Bicht and Mark Petrelli. I bought Bruce's car in March, 1977. Then in 1980, he broke a GTAJr crank and asked about getting back the Ron Neal/Prototype Engineering 1300 twin plug engine that was in the car when he had sold it to me (142 HP @8600 on the Prototype Engineering dyno sheet!). So we did a deal where he gave me some cash plus the parts (good, used) to build a twin plug engine out of a single plug engine - head, front cover, distributor, oil pump, etc. I assume they were the parts from his original 1600 GTA engine that came in the car when he bought it new. Bruce states in a letter that he was selling me his old car because he had purchased the Gary Rutherford GTA Jr. The serial number of the car I bought from him is not mentioned in any of the letters from Bruce.

I can't tell from the John Bicht correspondance what parts I gave him, but I do recall that I got from him the special suspension pieces that had been developed by Lee Dykstra for the GTA Jr's of Amman and Rutherford. This was in 1980 too. Bicht states in a letter that he bought the Amman car. Those suspension pieces went with a rolling chassis I sold together with the Ernie Smith GTV that Ernie had acquired from Rasey Feezell. Rasey had prepared it and raced it in IMSA GTU - with a narrow angle GTAm head (and knock-off Halibrand pin-drive GT40 wheels, but that's another story). Ernie bought the car less head, and I do not know who Rasey sold that head to. Ernie did obtain two GTAm heads later, one bare casting from Alfa Romeo, USA and the other one from Jon Norman. Ernie raced the car in IMSA GTU, but he never got either head on the car. Both heads were ultimately sold (around 1990) to Roman Tucker, along with much of the other GTAm engine parts Ernie had purchased direct from Alfa - Lucas injection with slide throttle, monosleeves, pistons, headgaskets, etc. Rasey had run the narrow angle head with Webers, not injection. After Ernie Smith got the car, I crewed for him, then later bought the car, less Halibrands (to lower the purchase price). He and I went to a vintage race at Sebring (1980?) and walked around the paddock talking to every GT40 and Cobra racer, looking for a buyer for the wheels, but we didn't have the wheels with us. He finally found a 427 Cobra guy who didn't think we were flakes. I will never forget Dick Leppla, a big buck vintage racer back then, refused to talk to us because he was sure it was a scam ("let's see, these two yahoos say they have pin drive Halibrands right off of an Alfa GTV...yeah, right") Ernie got as much for the wheels alone as I paid him for the rest of the car. But it did not have an engine. I heard that car is now owned and vintage raced by a guy in Arkansas, while the roller w/the Dykstra suspension was completed and is being vintage raced by a guy in Tallahassee. He and I have exchanged emails.

Mark Petrelli and I did our parts swapping at the same time back then, 1980. I was living in Florida and he was in New Jersey. So we met halfway at the Runoffs at Road Atlanta and exchanged parts, except for the Bruce Perry GTA Jr chassis. He sent someone later down to Florida to haul it back to get it.

Sorry to ramble on about all of the details. I hope someone finds it interesting...or useful in a search for background information.

OldAlfaGuy

[GTV PASSIONE]

As promised, I dusted off my trusty old HP 5100C scanner and copied some items of interest and amusement. Actually, I scanned a lot more stuff, including interesting articles in those programs but saved them as tiff files for easy reading. Only after doing multiple pages did I realize I couldn't upload those here. The Alfa ad is fun reading - I also scanned a higher resolution copy as a tiff.

Jeff

[sfourza]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAlfaGuy Ken, 1) I am certain that once SCCA dropped the 1600 GTA from B Sedan, it was never reinstated. However, it was always allowed in Trans Am. I can't remember when it was outlawed. At Paul Spruell's website, there is a copy of the January, 1970 issue of The Alfa Owner providing details of the 1969 Runoffs. (That is the year Paul won the President's Cup for his win in G Production.) That year (1969), GTA Jr's took 1st, 3rd and 4th in C Sedan (A Mini took 2nd). There were no Alfa's listed in B Sedan results, so that tells me that the 1600 GTA was dropped from B Sedan by 1969. The thing to do is locate the results of the 1968 Runoffs and see if GTA's were listed in the results. That will tell you which year it was dropped from B Sedan ('68 or '69). 2) As far as Bruce Perry's GTA Jr's are concerned, I can provide details on them. I owned one of them. He bought a 1600 GTA street car off the showroom floor at Algar Enterprises in Pennsylvania. First, he did Solo 2 (autocross), then Solo 1, then Regional racing and then finally National racing in the car. As he progressed up the competition ladder, he added the factory competition pieces one part at a time, until it finally had pretty much all of the goodies (sliding block, etc). After rolling the car (either Nelson Ledges or Watkins Glen, I forget), he bought one of the two Amman/Rutherford GTA Jr's and listed his old car for sale in The Alfa Owner. I bought it from him. This was in '77 or '78, I'd say. While I was at his shop in Bradford, PA to pick up the car, he showed me his new toy, the Amman/Rutherford car. It was trick. They had had Lee Dykstra go through the suspension, and it was all different stuff from the Autodelta setup. I remember Bruce telling me that his new car handled totally different from (and better than) his old car. Bruce is/was a neat guy. After retiring from teaching, he and his wife would go to vintage races selling old car magazines. I would always see him each year at the Fall Festival at Limerock. I also remember it took him forever to sell that Amman/Rutherford car. I don't think he wanted too much. The market just wasn't hot like it is these days. And he just didn't want to give it away. 3) Regarding your car, right now I can't be much help. There was a guy back in the '70's who did the neatest posters of race cars (Paul Oxman). He did one of the Bobcor cars together (at Road Atlanta, I seem to remember, coming out of turn 5). They were both yellow, but neither car had the plastic GTAm-type fenders. I left that poster on the wall in the garage of a house I sold and moved out of. Man, I wish I had that poster today. When I get time, I will look through old race programs and pictures I took at races to see if I can find your car. Didn't John Murphy have a yellow wide-fendered GTA/GTA Jr? I seem to remember him racing the car at the Walter Middy Challenge at Road Atlanta in the late '80's. Man, trying to recall all of this stuff from 20-30 years ago is really taxing my brain! OldAlfaGuy

[GTV PASSIONE]

I meant to include this 1970 RIR pre-registration line up (results posted above). I trust this answers OldAlfaGuy's Q on Vic Provenzano's car type (yes, a GTA). At that time, I just happened to work at the same manufacturing company in the San Fernando Valley as his wife Chris and visited them more than once at the track (small Alfa world!). I have photos of Vic's car taken from my usual RIR Turn 6 worker position. Most were 35mm slides so not easily shared here.

Jeff

[italcarguy]

Interesting to see AROSC as the entrant for Jeff Kiline in the #96 GTA Jr.

[kengta]

Here's a link showing some SCCA Midwest Division National Racing Div champs since 1963. B-Sedan and C-sedan amongst others.

http://www.midiv.org/PDF/2006_MIDIV_NATL_CHAMPS.pdf

Ciao

Ken

[veloce430]

I purchased 10559 775517, the ex Jeff Kline car from Hal Roren in Oregon in 1974. When Hal owned the car he drove it in Regionals in the NW and let Jeff continue to drive it one more season in SCCA Nat'ls. I think Jeff was leading C Sedan at Road Atlanta in '73 when the distributor cap came loose. It also was the car he raced at Riverside in T/A competion, they had added a quick front hoop to make a cage (Trans Am requirement) and it was made out of exhaust tubing. Ha!

Does anyone know the whereabout of that car now? I sold it at the end of the 78 season to a fellow in the Bay area who had been racing a GTV in SSB. He later sold it and I heard it was rear ended quite badly at Rivereside in the early 80's.

Stu Moss

[kengta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by veloce430 I purchased 10559 775517, the ex Jeff Kline car from Hal Roren in Oregon in 1974. When Hal owned the car he drove it in Regionals in the NW and let Jeff continue to drive it one more season in SCCA Nat'ls. I think Jeff was leading C Sedan at Road Atlanta in '73 when the distributor cap came loose. It also was the car he raced at Riverside in T/A competition, they had added a quick front hoop to make a cage (Trans Am requirement) and it was made out of exhaust tubing. Ha! Does anyone know the whereabouts of that car now? I sold it at the end of the 78 season to a fellow in the Bay area who had been racing a GTV in SSB. He later sold it and I heard it was rear ended quite badly at Riverside in the early 80's. Stu Moss

[kengta]

Bumping this thread as it relates to the current Thead on GTAj 775325

ciao

Ken

[Iron Mistress]

I'm very new here but I can add some info to this discussion. Bobcor did own the cars raced under his banner, at least at first. One of his origional drivers was a fellow named Bing Shear. I knew Bing, he was a member of the Western New York region of SCCA and raced a Sunbeam Alpine.

I know that Bing drove one of the Bobcor cars for part of the first year and I know he never owned an Alfa. I was racing a G/P 57 Giulietta at the time, and Bruce Perry and I were the only Alfa Racers in the region.

I had a lot of my engine work done by Jack Lawrence in Jamestown NY who ran an Alfa powered C S/R for many years before he switched to racing Saab's. He was a Saab dealer.

When I sold my 57 I built a 67 step nose GT jr. that I ran in D/S for a few years and then in C/S when SCCA eliminated D/S.

I don't have as much knowledge of the history of some of thses cars as many of you have buy I'm old enough to be able to add a tidbit here and there.

[kpc655]

man, great info!

[bdmartinez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Mistress I'm very new here but I can add some info to this discussion. Bobcor did own the cars raced under his banner, at least at first. One of his origional drivers was a fellow named Bing Shear. I knew Bing, he was a member of the Western New York region of SCCA and raced a Sunbeam Alpine. I know that Bing drove one of the Bobcor cars for part of the first year and I know he never owned an Alfa. I was racing a G/P 57 Giulietta at the time, and Bruce Perry and I were the only Alfa Racers in the region. I had a lot of my engine work done by Jack Lawrence in Jamestown NY who ran an Alfa powered C S/R for many years before he switched to racing Saab's. He was a Saab dealer. When I sold my 57 I built a 67 step nose GT jr. that I ran in D/S for a few years and then in C/S when SCCA eliminated D/S. I don't have as much knowledge of the history of some of thses cars as many of you have buy I'm old enough to be able to add a tidbit here and there.

[kengta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdmartinez interesting info on Bobcor... I wanted to clarify a few things regarding #52 GTA (775253). Ken Schley owned and raced that car through out the 71 T/A season. He had it shipped to Cozza's shop for the beginning of the 72 where he (Cozza) painted and prepped the car. For the few races, Shear and/or Rogers drove it but by Donnybrooke, Ken was back in the saddle. Hope that helps, Bernardo

[bdmartinez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kengta Hi I think, based on what records I have and discussion on this BB and else where, that there were 3 BOBCOR Alfas Raced in the Trans Am in 1972, the only year they were painted yellow and as far as I can tell the only year BOBCOR owned or sponsored the 3 GTAs. 1 RHD GTA #25, 1 LHD GTAj #52, 1 LHD GTAj??,#26. I think BOBCOR owned #25 and #26 and Schley retained ownership of #52 most likely with some sponsorship or support agreement with BOBCOR. A brief History of these 3 GTAs, Pictures of which are found in the Trans Am thread and elsewhere on this BB. ? Question Mark where info is my guess or not sure at this time. RHD GTA AR 752507 with 1600, 1972 #25 Yellow, Everett; 1971 #25 RedWhiteBlue, Everett; 1970 #25 RedWhite,Everett,Andrey; 1969 #25 RedWhite,Andrey 1966 #42/#32 Red, Richards/Alderman 1966 Autodelta prep for Alfa Romeo Inc/Baker and Heijn 1965 July build at AR LHD GTAj AR 775253 with 1600, 1972 #52 Yellow, Wayne (Bing) Sherer 3 races/Ken Schley ? races; 1971 #8 White?, Ken Schley; Prior not know be me LHD GTAj? AR 775___ with 1600, 1972 #26 Yellow, Ed Rogers 2 races crashed at Bryar and then parted out; 1971 #26 RedWhiteBlue, Gaston Andrey, 1970 #4 Orange, Harry T., Wetson team car with #3 which is a GTAj Chassis Likely new build by Kweck for 1970 season New info welcomed. FWIW Ken