Bobcor History and B & C sedan

[GTV PASSIONE]

My own picture of Bobcor #25 RHD is too big to scan an image... a 23x32 poster I bought around 1976 and dry mounted. It shows #25 RHD Bobcor leading #52 LHD Bobcor through the esses at Road Atlanta (#25's LF wheel is aloft). Both cars are Bobcor yellow. Maybe I could shoot a digi pic of that poster to share if you guys haven't seen it.

I also note that at RIR TransAm (Oct 3, 1971), Bert Everett qualified 5th on the grid in #2 (I'm looking at the original RIR typed starting grid sheet as I write this). I don't know if that was same car as #25, but Horst Kwech gridded 3rd in #3 and Harry T. gridded 12th in #4 car. I might have results from those races stashed away (I manned Turn 6 as a Cal Club worker back then).

Jeff

[OldAlfaGuy]

Ken,

Man, that poster is the greatest! The cars are coming out of turn 5 at Road Atlanta. That is the esses in the background.

I have some info on the original 1600 twin plug engine from Bruce Perry's car. And yes, I am pretty sure the chassis of Bruce Perry's original GTA Jr ended up in Michigan.

It's a great story involving Ed Zink, a member of the Hee Haw TV show cast, and an Optometrist on the Jersey shore! But it is way too long to put in this forum. Send me a PM if you want more info.

OldAlfaGuy

[OldAlfaGuy]

Anthony,

Are you sure your car's participation in SCCA competition in 1969 wasn't just Trans Am? Remember, the GTA was always legal in Trans Am. Your picture of your car behind the #25 Bobcor car at Leguna Seca in '72 has got to be a Trans Am race, right? First, there are spectators in the picture. Something you don't see at SCCA Club Racing. Second, Bobcor focused on the Trans Am series. I can't see him towing from Buffalo to Leguan Seca for a National Club Race.

All I can tell you is that, as long as the GTA was legal in B Sedan, it dominated that class. And there are no GTA's listed in the results of the 1969 Runoffs. Perhaps there is some other explanation for that.

I remember when it happened. But at the time, you don't tell yourself, "Hey, you're going to need to remember all of the details about this because it's going to be very important to a bunch of people in 35 years!" You know?

OldAlfaGuy

[italcarguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAlfaGuy Anthony, Are you sure your car's participation in SCCA competition in 1969 wasn't just Trans Am? Remember, the GTA was always legal in Trans Am. Your picture of your car behind the #25 Bobcor car at Leguna Seca in '72 has got to be a Trans Am race, right? First, there are spectators in the picture. Something you don't see at SCCA Club Racing. Second, Bobcor focused on the Trans Am series. I can't see him towing from Buffalo to Leguan Seca for a National Club Race. All I can tell you is that, as long as the GTA was legal in B Sedan, it dominated that class. And there are no GTA's listed in the results of the 1969 Runoffs. Perhaps there is some other explanation for that. I remember when it happened. But at the time, you don't tell yourself, "Hey, you're going to need to remember all of the details about this because it's going to be very important to a bunch of people in 35 years!" You know? OldAlfaGuy

[OldAlfaGuy]

After sleeping on it, I am certain now that I was wrong about the SCCA production requirement. I think that it was (is still?) 500 units, not 1,000 as I said in a previous post. And I also think I had my wires crossed on GTA Jr. production numbers. Those of you who felt it was more like 447 or there abouts are no doubt correct. I apologize for any confusion I caused. It's murder on the brain trying to pull up all of this old information and I guess sometimes it comes up jumbled.

So far, I only found one picture that I took of a Bobcor car. It is at a Trans Am race at Road Atlanta, August '72, coming out from under the bridge. It is car #52, no plastic fenders, with a green and a red stipe running across the back end. You can't tell much else from the photo. Sorry for the poor quality. I have scanned it and blown it up. and I'll try to attach it.

OldAlfaGuy

[kengta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTV PASSIONE My own picture of Bobcor #25 RHD is too big to scan an image... a 23x32 poster I bought around 1976 and dry mounted. It shows #25 RHD Bobcor leading #52 LHD Bobcor through the esses at Road Atlanta (#25's LF wheel is aloft). Both cars are Bobcor yellow. Maybe I could shoot a digi pic of that poster to share if you guys haven't seen it. I also note that at RIR TransAm (Oct 3, 1971), Bert Everett qualified 5th on the grid in #2 (I'm looking at the original RIR typed starting grid sheet as I write this). I don't know if that was same car as #25, but Horst Kwech gridded 3rd in #3 and Harry T. gridded 12th in #4 car. I might have results from those races stashed away (I manned Turn 6 as a Cal Club worker back then). Jeff

[kengta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by italcarguy Here are some pictures of ex-Murphy GTA being spoken about. I shot them in October 2006 at the Coronado Festival of Speed. When I first saw the car in 1999, it was in "as raced" condition and painted yellow. Picture 1: Where the pedal box was located when the car was LHD Pictures 2 and 3: Interior shots Pictures 4 and 5: Trans Am "brass tag" reading 72BS15

[Judge Parker]

Further to the last post and for general info, I believe ARI imported 10 Autodelta prepared GTA Jrs that can be documented to some extent or the other. The chassis numbers are:
10559 776124 sold to Dave Davenport
" 775580 sold to Armstrong
" 775511 sold to O'Brien
" 775517 sold to Otto Zipper then to Jeff Kline
" 775477 sold to Rassey Fezzell
Additionally, 2 cars were sold to Gaston Andrey - one (both?) driven by Dave Ammen
If I read J Black's notes correctly, 3 cars were sold through the sales department though there is no record of their Chassis numbers or those of the two bought by Gaston Andrey though, honestly, I have done little to locate them. Their current owners, no doubt, know what they are.
Another comment; I followed the Trans Am Alfas closely as a young man and do not recall them being "outlawed". My memory may well be faulty here but I seem to remember that they ran, in both the Trans Am and in B Sedan, well into the 70's & also well beyond the point of being competitive. Having said that, they had that "Euro prepped, special semi-exotic" look about them and remained the best looking racing sedan right till the end.
Regards, Judge Parker

[dretceterini]

I still think that real GTAs (aluminum coachwork) were only legal in B-sedan until 1968, when the 1750s came out. They still did, of course, race in Trans-Am after that date....

[bill2000]

Sorry for the digression but I'm curious, who/what was Gaston Andrey? I think my '73 was purchased at a dealership called 'Gaston Andrey' in Brookline, MA.

Thanks,
Bill

[kengta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Parker Further to the last post and for general info, I believe ARI imported 10 Autodelta prepared GTA Jrs that can be documented to some extent or the other. The chassis numbers are: 10559 776124 sold to Dave Davenport " 775580 sold to Armstrong " 775511 sold to O'Brien " 775517 sold to Otto Zipper then to Jeff Kline " 775477 sold to Rassey Fezzell Additionally, 2 cars were sold to Gaston Andrey - one (both?) driven by Dave Ammen If I read J Black's notes correctly, 3 cars were sold through the sales department though there is no record of their Chassis numbers or those of the two bought by Gaston Andrey though, honestly, I have done little to locate them. Their current owners, no doubt, know what they are. Another comment; I followed the Trans Am Alfas closely as a young man and do not recall them being "outlawed". My memory may well be faulty here but I seem to remember that they ran, in both the Trans Am and in B Sedan, well into the 70's & also well beyond the point of being competitive. Having said that, they had that "Euro prepped, special semi-exotic" look about them and remained the best looking racing sedan right till the end. Regards, Judge Parker

[kengta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill2000 Sorry for the digression but I'm curious, who/what was Gaston Andrey? I think my '73 was purchased at a dealership called 'Gaston Andrey' in Brookline, MA. Thanks, Bill

[OldAlfaGuy]

1) Digging through my material, I have found published results showing that Vic Provenzano won a National Championship in 1967 in the "Sedan class up to 2 liters.". It does not say what type of Alfa. I assume it was a GTA. Then there are no GTA's listed as finishing in the National Championships in 1968 or 1969. I cannot explain that. Then in 1970, V. Provenzano is listed as the winner in B Sedan, and it says it was in a GTA. There are no GTA's listed in the championship results after that year. As foggy as a lot of these details are to me after all this time, that confirms to me that that was the last year the GTA was allowed to compete in SCCA Club Racing. The 1971 championship results show a bunch of GTA Jr's in C Sedan. That is the first time they show up in the results, indicating that is the first year that that car was in C Sedan. From 1971 on, no GTA's are ever shown in the championship results again, and that is the first year that the GTA JR shows up in the results.

2) John Bicht did have an Amman/Rutherford car. I did some GTA parts trading with him. This was early '80's. I do remember he traded me the Lee Dykstra -designed suspension pieces from the car, and I gave him some Autodelta stuff, because he wanted original factory design parts back on the car.

3) The Rasey Feezell car, 775447, was originally brought in by Alfa Romeo dealer Madison Smith, of Nashville,TN. Madison raced the car, qualifying for the Runoffs at Daytona (1969?), then sold the car to Rasey, who lived in Oak Ridge,TN. Rasey then sold that car to someone who came up from Mexico. That would have been in '73-'74 maybe. I was living nearby in Knoxville. I had bought Rasey's Autodelta-prepared Ti Super, and later, a set of Campy's from him for the car. I autocrossed it and drove it on the street. So Rasey calls me one Saturday and asks me if I want to sell the Campy's to these guys from Mexico, who are at his house picking up the GTA Jr. I said "no." He said, "But you can name your price! These guys are loaded and are buying everything in sight!"

In 1975, I moved to Nashville, and went to work for Madison Smith as service manager at the Alfa dealership. At the dealership, they told a couple of neat stories about that GTA Jr. One was how it arrived at the dealership. As a dealer, he had ordered it through regular Alfa Romeo USA channels, and one day this vehicle transporter shows up with a load of Alfas - say, 3 Spiders, 2 GTV's, a Berlina, and 1 Autodoelta-prepared GTA Jr! The other story was about his trip to the Runoffs. The windshiled got cracked in practice, so he calls the dealership back in Nashville and tells one of the Parts Department guys to throw a new windshield in the back of a car and get it down there - pronto. That guy drove straight through so Madison could make his race.

3) I did some parts trading with Mark Petrelli, too (If you run in to him, remind him that he still owes me a pair of fiberglass doors with the plexiglass windows!). And part of the trade included the ex-Bruce Perry GTA/GTAJr shell. Essentially, I parted that car out. I know, I know, that sounds crazy today. But back then, the cost to repair it was much more than its value. Nobody wanted old Alfa race cars then. I assume Petrelli did some kind of trade with Roman Tucker, if he has it now. Yesterday I made one pass through my papers and did not find anything that had the serial number of the car on it. I'll look again when I get time.

OldAlfaGuy

[italcarguy]

Right now I am looking at 1969 and 1970 B Sedan regional starting grid, results, and points standings for our GTA. So that should nail down the fact that GTA's had not yet been banned from SCCA B Sedan in 1969 or 1970. I got some other things to do right now, but I'll scan them later this afternoon and post them here.

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by italcarguy Right now I am looking at 1969 and 1970 B Sedan regional starting grid, results, and points standings for our GTA. So that should nail down the fact that GTA's had not yet been banned from SCCA B Sedan in 1969 or 1970. I got some other things to do right now, but I'll scan them later this afternoon and post them here.