1969 FIA group 2 and GTam

[andyb6]

Questions for the grizzled race veterans about 1969 FIA group 2 touring cars or anywhere else the GTam ran.
1. Does anyone have FIA forms/rules for the period that defined the GTam?
Vintage racing groups in the USA will allow cars to run prepared to such a format as long as it can be documented.

Answers needed would be engine displacements, vehicle weights, induction limitations, suspension rules, wheels and tires rules.

2. Does anyone have a copy of ( I am not sure what this would be called) a parts or options catalog that would document the availability of the narrow angle GTam head, Mono-sleeve, Carbs (for rally motor) and Injection specs?

3. Any other related and relevant information would be greatly appreciated, as my ignorance limits my ability to know what questions to ask.

Best Regards
Andy Besic

[alfazagato]

The FIA technical regulations are, I believe, on the web. Whether or not they relate directly to that period I don't know. There was sales booklet (reprint) for GTA racing parts on e-bay recently. Do a search.

[andyb6]

Alfazagato
thank you for the sales booklet lead. I apologize for my ignorance, but I was born in 1968 so I don't necessarily know what I am looking for specifically, just intuitively.

I have searched for period FIA papers and only seem to come up with cryptic tidbits. I have read this site http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/index.html Which gives tidbits. I can't find the link right now but there is a B-sedan website that touches on the subject as well. I am hoping someone over the pond can help me identify what it is I am looking for and where I might find it!

[alfazagato]

Andyb6,
Better be quick on the booklet as there appears to be only two hours left on e-bay.

[andyb6]

I have a booklet on the way! From what little I have found it appears FIA defined the GTam late in 1969 for the 1970 season, but I have no details. The FIA website archives go all the way back to...1995. It appears the Canadian Auto Sport Club (similar to SCCA of the time) may have either followed FIA or adopted their own for B-sedan. Any Canuks have some old homologation papers or GCR's or links they could share?

Best
Andy

[JohnT]

Andy-
I have searched the web high and low for Group 2 specifications with no luck. I believe some of the GTAm homologation documents are in Alleggerita, if you have access to a copy.
Who are you planning on running with, out of curiosity?

-JT

[105.31]

The John Tipler book 'Giulia Coupe GT & GTA' also has a copy of the FIA homologation papers for the GTAm.
There are 7 pages reproduced in the book, not all of very good quality, although the camshaft and inlet/exhaust port pages are great. Dimensions and everything!!!
The FIA homologation number for the GTAm document is 1576. I can scan and post them if you like, but be warned. The quality on 2 of the 7 published pages is pretty bad. All text is in Italian, of course

[andyb6]

JohnT
I have no idea. I know so little about the GTam and FIA gr2 I am really just fishing at this point. I am hoping the FIA gr2 does not require a 2 liter sedan to weigh 2350lbs as VSCDA is trying to enforce due to 1972 SCCA B-sedan rules. There are replica GTam heads and monosleeves available, if a motor could be had........$$$$ The Tech nazi's will need full documentation before 240hp could be unleashed in a 105 legally.

Graham
Please send me as Hi res scans as you can. Posting will help the next guy who ties to find this as well. send to andyb at randrew dot com

Thanks Gents

[genericwood]

Andy, I can't help with the GTAm documents. But I'm not sure I understand how running a GTAm would help with VSCDA? While they might allow you to run it, it wouldn't be in B-Sedan. Wouldn't you just end up in a class by yourself with no one to run against?

I do wonder if VSCDA will get cars to replace the Alfas which will no longer be participating in their events? As you know, I'm running an all SVRA schedule so I don't have to put 350 pounds of ballast in my car!

Erik

[Alex]

If it helps, italcarguy posted a PDF scan of the 'regular' GTA FIA homologation sheet #1395 / AR-29 (and supplementary FIA/ACI sheets) early last year. They don't seem to directly relate to the GTAm but it might help. Do a search under italcarguy's name and his posts.

I don't have my Tabucchi book with me but I seem to recall there being more info in there.

Alex.

[andyb6]

Erik
As I understand it.....SCCA B-sedan rules in the early sixties came directly from the FIA gr2. I don't know or want to argue the politics of it, but SCCA moved away from those rules with weight penalties to the Alfa by the 1970's and actually had the cars running heavier than they did in street trim on the showroom floor!

1970 FIA gr2 car spec
Alfa Romeo 2000 GTAm Autodelta Group 2
Engine Alfa Romeo 4 in line
Bore and stroke 84,5 x 88,5
Size 1985 cc
Cams 2 OHC
Valves per cilinder 2
Power 205 HP
Details Spica fuel injection
Transmission Autodelta 5-speed
Weight 914 kg
Brakes f/r disc / disc
Wheels f/r
Tyres

This data is out of this page http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...70%20Cars.html
This shows me the monosleeve in a 1750 bored to 84.5mm to displace 1985cc and a weight of 914kg which I think converts to 2013lbs!

in 1970 it ran against BMW 2002, ford capri etc. so I imagine it will still be in VSCDA group 8 racing with all the same cars.

[kengta]

Hi All,

See the attached PDF of an article for which I will have to find the exact date later if anyone needs it. The race most likely occured 1971 to 1974 at the track at Sanair, Quebec.

The GTAm was reported to be an Ex-Chechoslovakian enty in the European touring car championship.

After the described crash, and I warn you, all the following is hearsay, a new bare shell was obtained directly from Alfa Romeo and the GTAm parts transfered over with the original chassis being lost. This GTAm much later, but by now ten or more years ago, again hearsay, found its way to a collector/vintage racer in upstate New York, where it may still reside.

Was this the only GTAm ever raced in North America in its era?

FWIW

ciao

Ken

[GTV4EVR]

Thanks for a fun read Ken. I might buy more can magazines if the race reports were written that way. Do you know what magazine is it from (CT&T?)? I went to a few Sanair races in the early 70s, but not that one.

Ken

[Alleggerita]

FWIW, you can now get FIA papers for built up car to spec - was not possible before, though some managed it. Obviously having a 105.51 chassis in the case of a GTAm is desirable. Giulias can also be converted to TI Super spec. Whether an American sanctioning body will accept them in the class here is another question.

[GTV4EVR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kengta Hi All, See the attached PDF of an article for which I will have to find the exact date later if anyone needs it. The race most likely occured 1971 to 1974 at the track at Sanair, Quebec. ciao Ken