GTV Automatics

arvorio 105 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 06:16 AM

OK, now seems a good time to bring this up. I've been following with much interest the posts re. South African built Alfas in the History Forum and recently the auto GTV thread in the Picture Room Forum. My 1975 GTV automatic is part way thru a fairly major rebuild including panel repair, paint (twice so far

don't ask), trim etc. and I performed a manual transmission transplant courtesy
of a donor car.

I understand from previously posted info that these RHD GTV autos were assembled in SA using CKD kits combined with locally sourced paint, trim etc. I realize that these cars are probably of limited interest to you guys in the States (since they were never sold there) but I would be interested in documenting the various differences between these cars and the RHD export Italian assembled cars. Some items I've noticed so far:

1. All the cars I've seen so far are either Silver or White with off white trim in the usual narrow pleated style but the doortrims are plain vinyl (no diagonal heatwelded seams) with a stainless trim strip towards the top and bottom of the door.

2. The headliner is plain off white vinyl and not the usual snake bite material.

3. Carpet (black) is plain cut pile not the usual corded loop pile stuff.

4. The centre console is obviously a different style to suit the floor mount shifter for the 3 speed ZF auto trans.

5. The rear window lacks the heating wires and has a blanking plug in the dash where the switch should be however the car is fitted with the correct wiring loom and relay for operation.

6. The side and rear glass has no SICURSIV logo usually found on the Italian built cars. Was this locally sourced too?

7. The drivers seat on my car was biased so far to the RH side that the door was difficult to close because the armrest fouled the seat backrest and had been like that since new! I've since moved the floor mounts 2-3 inches towards the trans tunnel in the interests of driver comfort

8. The diff ratio is incredibly tall which only became apparent after fitting the manual trans. Fourth gear in my car is now the equivalent of fifth in most others!

The bit I don't get is why it seems the paint/rim combo was so limited. Also, were these auto cars sold in the UK and other parts of Asia? If anyone can provide any more info please feel free to join in.

**Andrew** · #2 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 08:39 AM

I show on the Berlina Register that automatic Berlinas had a 4.3 diff, which I think is the same as manual transes for non-US 2000s; auto 1750s probably had 4.56?

I don't know if that is also the case for automatic GTVs.

On the Register I show probably 2/3 of all automatic Berlinas being in Australia. One in SA, a couple in Germany, one in UK, one in Denmark. Again, dunno if that would correlate to GTVs.

Andrew Watry

arvorio 105 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:03 PM

Hey Andrew, thanks for your input. I've posted details of my 2 auto Berlinas in the Sedan Forum so you can top up the Register.

**Andrew** · #4 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Thanks
Andrew

py105 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 10:23 PM

arvorio thanks for your post - all very interesting details. A part of me wishes you had kept the Auto in the car! Is yours silver or white?

AR Gary · #6 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 11:00 PM

I noticed this GTV on eBay.co.uk recently. It isn't too often that you'll see an automatic. Note that the door panel and arm rest are as you describe.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5806&rd=1&rd=1

Regards,

Gary

alfa2go · #7 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 11:00 PM

Did you see the one on Aussie Ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Alfa-Romeo-10...QQcmdZViewItem

Finishes in 1 hour, at $1175 at the moment...

beatle_bayly · #8 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 11:10 PM

Back in the late '70s early '80s in Oz there were quite a few ex S.A. GTVs around with vinyl roofs, and a fair proportion of these were auto's. Haven't seen a vinyl roof Alfa for over 15 years now so I guess they all rusted away.

At the time, the theory was that the S.A. cars rusted faster than the Italian built cars as they were assembled from older panels that hadn't been protected prior to the car being assembled and painted . Also, that the roofs were covered because they sat unsold for so long on the docks and the roof paint was damaged.

A bit mythical I think..............

arvorio 105 · #9 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 06:03 AM

G'day again Peter. My GTV is Silver although not quite the same shade as it left the factory after I'ts recent repaint. If the car had been a tidier example when purchased I may have thought twice about the trans swap. As it was, by the time I got it home and did the sums it almost ended up as a parts car because it was in such average condition

The 2ltr motors are torquey enough to handle the loss of two gears but from a drivers point of veiw a manual car is obviously much more fun.

The cars that Beatle is describing sound like the 2ltr GTV SE sold in the UK with a vinyl roof, blacked out grill, turbina alloys and some pinstriping. Maybe some of these made their way to Aus. as well?

The info I read in the SA Assembled Alfas thread hinted that perhaps they did their own panel pressing but the auto GTV's appear to be made of the same crap materials as the ones built in Italy. Gotta love that Russian steel

.

Quietelk · #10 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 11:13 PM

First post! I own two auto GTVs at the moment. One is white but has been resprayed from lord knows what, and the one I'm restoring is red. It has also been resprayed at some point, but the two previous owners were brothers (both deceased) and I bought it off the widow of the second owner and she remembers seeing the car when it was first bought - and it was red.

Both these cars are currently in Canberra, Australia. The white one has a lot of minor rust in the top part of the body, but the red one only had a little bit of rust in the sills. It was shipped to Canberra, sold here, and spent most of its life here in the dry interior. Not much risk of rust!

Why did I buy automatic twice? Because the car is my daily driver and it's great to just jump in and run around while I save my pennies for a Montreal

.

**italiansedanman** · #11 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 11:45 PM

Much as the idea of an autoboxed-Alfa 105 or 116 kind of irks me, can I ask - is the box in question the ZF HP/3? I believe it to be, and is the same as the unit fitted in large numbers to BMW 2002s - and I tipped mine for a 5 speeder from a 325i. A bit off topic, but I just cant understand why these boxes were at all popular for these small, sporty driver's cars. Here in Australia, I guess there has always been a very large market share for Autos, and as I could imagine in the 70's, an Auto would have been new and cool!!

They were appalling gearboxes though, and added some significant weight to the 2002 and the 2000GTV i'd imagine as well.

Quietelk · #12 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 12:16 AM

Yes it is a ZF box, but I haven't checked the model. I'm sure it does impact the performance of the engine but I just don't care - the rarity makes up for the lack of zip.

I'm pretty sure the autos weren't "popular" - the reviews I've seen trash them.

Not sure what the criteria are for "appalling" since the gearbox is pretty much the only part of the car that hasn't needed some kind of refurbishment or replacement. We just add fluid and away it goes. All the mechanics I've spoken to say they've never seen a broken one.

I'm sure now having said that, there'll be six posts explaining in intricate detail how these boxes fail and all their mechanical shortcomings

.

**italiansedanman** · #13 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 03:24 AM

Well, from the BMW 2002 perspective; they work okay as the SOHC BMW M10 is a relatively torquey unit with quite a flat curve. I dont think that there is really anything that wrong with them, but one apalling thing the 2002 Auto owner had to contend with was a Solex dual throat carb with a vacuum secondary, making the driving experience rather interesting. Alfa owners at least never had to put up with that.

There were lots of 02s with the ZF, many of them are being tossed for manuals as the autos have a nice, wide tunnel that accomodates a 5 speeder and change linkage nicely, and unlike the 2000GTV - its not a rare model. I am with you, I believe the rarity of the auto GTV makes it more interesting.

Quietelk · #14 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 03:27 AM

Actually the autos are my first GTVs so I've never driven the manual! Must compare and contrast at some point...

arvorio 105 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 05:09 PM

G'day again guys, re. the ZF auto boxes, in my experience I'd have to say that they are pretty much bullet proof and I'd wager that (shock horror) these auto equipped 105's are less fragile than an equivalent 5 speed car. Just not as much fun to play with !

The car that alfa2go mentions above I ended up buying just for........... it's unbroken grill

I needed one for the Silver car and these castings are so delicate it's almost impossible to find a s/h item that's not in 4 pieces or more. As it was I still spent a whole afternoon with some Autosol, a tiny wire brush and a file making it look more respectable. Ahhh, the joys of restoration. The rest of the car is pretty tired with holes in every panel, untidy trim etc. but is (was) complete and doesn't appear to have ever been badly bent. I think it's what Akitaman would describe as ripe for restoration ! If I can work out how to post some pics I'll send them thru.