Well, lets do this again! - Page 4

PSk · #46 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akitaman

patch........ This car is riddled with patches. The fact that the old metal was not removed, and more so perfectly good metal was merely riveted on. That is a patch (plugging a hole so to speak). The circles that I travel in, refer to butt welding with forging as panel restoring. Patching, in among these people, is called butchering.
And as always Pete, I know what you mean. Your a man with a discriminating eye for detail and quality.

endel · #47 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 05:51 PM

So, I'll ask again. Is it really less expensive to do those repairs as you described, as opposed to buying new complete panels for replacement? Labor is expensive. I'm going to be very attentive to this project. I'm not a "body man", so I appreciate all of this information.

PSk · #48 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endel

So, I'll ask again. Is it really less expensive to do those repairs as you described, as opposed to buying new complete panels for replacement? Labor is expensive. I'm going to be very attentive to this project. I'm not a "body man", so I appreciate all of this information.

endel · #49 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 06:21 PM

New panels are expensive indeed. My car is a semi-daily/seasonal driver and I've had it since 1980. I know that pretty soon I will need to do some restoration work on the body. Right now, I can't imagine seeing my car stripped down to metal. Good luck with your car, and I look forward to seeing it get "corrected".

**1750GT** · #50 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 06:40 PM

It's shocking indeed to see this kind of butchery! Leads one to wonder how in the heck the chassis survived over the years if that much work was necessary in the first place?

**mubezzi** · #51 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 06:52 PM

No worries, it truely is in good hands. I can not wait for the project completed photos to be posted to this website, you guy's will all be blown away...so will my 401k!

**mubezzi** · #52 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 06:54 PM

Just doing my part to bring back a piece of the past...

**1750GT** · #53 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 07:09 PM

I especially can't wait to see the final result....I'm really on the fence as to whether or not to keep my GTV in this colour...or go with the deeper blue of the Blue Olandese. And AKITAMAN...I am really impressed with your openess to this BB in posting all these pics of your craftsmanship ....this is a rare thing in today's world ...the ALFABB is very fortunate to have guys like you contributing so much to this BB!! Bravo!!

endel · #54 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 07:14 PM

There are things that make owning old Alfas difficult, and AKITAMAN is making it easier for all of us. The insight and experience he's so willing to share is a HUGE bonus to all of us. Keep it coming.

**akitaman** · #55 (**permalink**) 08-03-2006, 08:09 PM

You guys are way to kind! Buying panels versus making them.... the most loaded question ever! The short story, all the panels I've bought over the years, fall under three groups. The U.S. made panels are...well to good. Most U.S. panels, the steel is higher grade and thicker gauge. This can be difficult to prevent warpage come welding time. The Taiwan made panels are closer in gauge to Alfa's (russian steel) but it's very soft. Then there's N.O.S. alfa steel. Hard to come by, and when we do find it $$$$ So the best overall option cutting up one from a fallen conrad. plan "b" I'll make one. This at times proves to be the better option. And at other times not cost effective.

Again thanks for the very kind words, Daron

Damo105 · #56 (**permalink**) 08-04-2006, 01:01 AM

This is a great thread to follow!

Akitaman, my GTV goes into the panel shop soon for some minor repairs to drivers door, and to paint the right side. In an earlier post you mentioned that AR paint codes mean nothing these days if they're old colours that haven't recently been used. Does this mean there is no point in giving the panel shop the Dupont/Ditzler etc codes?

The car is LeMans Blue. As I'm totally unfamiliar with paint matching, is there anything I should tell him re paint colour before he is let loose with the spray gun? Or do I just leave it up to him to match it and hope he has a good eye?

Also, the car has been repainted by previous owners at some point. Paint is still very good, but how do I determine if it's clear over base on not, cause I have no idea when it was painted, and what method was used. Or will the spray painter be able to determine this?

Thanks for any help you can give!

Damien

jrichter · #57 (**permalink**) 08-04-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akitaman

The metal will not be "patched". The metal will be cut clean, Tig welded in a butt match, then the welds will hot be forged to a near smooth finish. When restoring a car, the metal must be integral to the existing metal. This is the best way to prevent welding degradation or rust.

**akitaman** · #58 (**permalink**) 08-04-2006, 01:51 PM

Hi Damien. Dupont has what is called "the historical color library" . This is where they went back and reformulated old colors. Lemans Blue has been redone. Worst case, Glasrut has always done a great job on keeping old colors updated. And, they are a great paint company anyway.

Hi Jens, you are correct on the term butt match. As for the hot forge. After we TIG weld the metal, we use a torch and heat the weld (one inch at a time....25mm to you) and hammer and dolly it flat. This process helps make the weld become an integral part the sheet metal. We can do this with a Tig welder but not so much with a Mig.

RogerD · #59 (**permalink**) 08-04-2006, 04:22 PM

Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder and for answering everyone's questions. The truly scary thing is how well hidden the butchery was. As someone who is shopping for an ALFA, it really knocked me back. Talk about "Buyer Beware"! Could you have spotted the patching, warping, etc before the stripping was done?

**akitaman** · #60 (**permalink**) 08-04-2006, 04:52 PM

Could you spot the butch job..... Oh ya. As you look for that Alfa keep these five tips in mind. 1) Doors, trunk and hood gaps should be fairly equal. They tell a good story so read them. 2) Feel the edges all the way around the doors. They should be thin and smooth. If they have body filler you'll know. 3) The rockers should have a clean, well pronounced gap. 4) style lines should be SHARP. If the style line are not clean then either the paint is heavy or the body filler is plenty. 5) Stand four to five feet behind the car and get eye level with the style lines. They should arch slightly up and out. The style lines should fade away about 6 inches from the rear and never fade in the front. I hope this helps.