Ongoing restoration of our 1967 Giulia GT Sprint Veloce

[alfa2go]

Sent you a PM where I saw some cheap NOS headlight rings.

[JHMAlfa]

hey your stepfront is looking superb - interesting thread

for info (you prob know already) Classic Alfa do the ring and the bracket new for step fronts, may solve your issue with the repro / NOS not fitting up properly

[kpc655]

Tj,

I got the trunk cut up for you. but my camera crapped out! i'll scrounge up another one and get a few shots your way..hopefully it'll be what you need

Kevin

[alfa_corsa]

Kevin-thanks so much. You're a good man. Please let me know how much I owe you and I'll PayPal the funds to you.

Regards,
TJ

PS-shipping address is 95033

JHM-I actually bought the support rings from Alfaholics and the chrome trim rings from Highwood. Alfaholics told me they don't stock original chrome trim rings any more and that they're using the repops now. I assume everyone is getting their repop parts from the same source. They said they hadn't tried the repops on their headlight support pieces yet.

[alfa_corsa]

Things had been going pretty well on my Alfa project. It was all too easy. I'd not run in to any major challenges or setbacks. I knew that would not last long. Over the past couple of weeks I've run in to some challenges, none of which are surprising, and one of which have me much more than determined to figure out how to eliminate them. Getting the nose panel fitted has gone much easier than I'd expected, with the exception of the headlight support rings which are pretty tricky to get in right. I'm still working on that. The corner repair panel that I got from Alfaholics has been occupying most of my time lately and after hours of grinding I started to weld it in last weekend. I was not happy with the way it turned out. Apparently metal fabrication and welding is hard! And I'm a rookie. I really don't know what I'm doing, truth be told. I understand the principles; preparation is 99% of the work, heat is your enemy, go slow, fit and re-fit and when you're done, fit again. Use the right tools and take your time. I had it lined up pretty well and clamped in place (or so I thought) but once I finished pulling the trigger I was not real impressed. It was ugly. I could just hear my old 7th grade metal shop teacher, Mr. Collacino yelling at my ugly welds. The original metal is really hard to weld. It just blows through so easily, despite my cleaning it and using very low wire speeds and voltage from my Mig welder. Still, the biggest problem was the poorly aligned panel. It's been bugging me since last weekend.

And so this evening, ignoring my instincts, I set about to fix it. I used the thinnest cutoff disc I could find and carefully cut along the seam of the panel in question. I got it cut free without removing too much metal, and set about making it right. I lined it up carefully, and clamped it in place, and started tacking it in again. I'm still having problems with blowthrough, and the welds aren't real pretty, but the panel is much better aligned this time. This is a tricky part of the body, because there are two body creases; the one along the top of the fender, and the one along the waistline. Both come together at each corner of the front of the car, and if they're off it looks horrible. I really didn't want to sculpt them out of filler.

And so I've got a long way to go, but I did make some progress. I'll make some pictures when I get it cleaned up a bit. Right now it looks awful and I'm not willing to go public with it just yet.

Ciao!
-tj

[my72gtv]

I wouldnt worry about it too much. I replaced many panels on my gtv including floors, rockers and all 4 corners, rear right inner and outer panel. When I was done, i also replaced the front belly pan. I worked really hard to smooth the welds once they were welded. I started tacking every 3 inches and cooled it with a moist rag. then i inch apart and eventually filled 'most' of the holes. Dont worry about "filling" out all the holes. I spent a lot of time grinding the welds until smooth with the metal. The reality is that you will always need some filler. I used all metal over the welds area and turned out great. 22 gau steel is very difficult to butt weld without distortion. Even the best, most expensive shops use some filler, and most use more filler than they admit. The key is to protect the welds on the inside against rust and you will be fine.

My neighbor was a certified welder for many years and was amazed at how good my welding was. I was really proud of how smooth I thought the panel fit turned out. I thought it could be painted without any filler, I WAS WRONG, there WILL always be some filler over those welds and fillers like all metal is made to cover those imperfections eventually.

[1750GT]

Tj, you may be beating yourself for reasons not entirely yours. The repro repair panels are not made from the original ALFA tooling and the locations of features (such as crease lines) might not ever match perfectly. As for the blow through, that's a real PITA. Was this occurring with the back-up copper as well? What gas combination are you using? You could try to get the right machine settings for voltage and wire feed by practising on some of the old panels you cut-off. One consolation with MIG is that it can lay down a lot of metal and if it doesn't look good at first....grind it down!...it's no big deal really.

[alfa_corsa]

Rossano-thanks for the pep talk and the advice. I know that the panels aren't going to be a perfect fit, I guess I just expect to be able to get them closer than perhaps is realistic. I'm not afraid to use a little filler as I know it's inevitable, and ultimately the car will get a skim coat as well. As for my setup, I'm using 75% argon, 25% CO2. I'm using a Millermatic 210 and have it set at the lowest voltage and the lowest wirespeed (10). I've played around a little with the wirespeed, never going higher than 20, but it seems that the lower speed works better. I just spent a few hours in the garage this evening and got it a little better, but it's very, very hard to keep the welds from blowing through. I'm definitely laying some wire in to that metal and grinding down the ugly beads afterward. = )

Ciao!
-tj in Los Gatos

[my72gtv]

I also use a Millermatic 210. I found it works best with .23 wire not the usual.35. Once I switched to the thinner wire, the welds were less "hot" and melted smoother. The millermatic's lowest setting is still a little too hot for 22 gauge, so dont be discouraged. I also have a smaller 11ov mig that worked best until it broke. Try cooling the welds down with a moist rag to lessen distortion. and never stitch longer than 1/4 inch at a time. I wished i would have taken some pics to post here. Good luck

[alfa_corsa]

We're using the exact same setup. I've never used anyting but 23 in my Millermatic. I'm having less problem with distortion than I am just getting the welds not to blow through. That's my biggest challenge, it's just very hard to prevent it from blowing through the original metal.

[my72gtv]

Always keep in mind that the original metal is of much lower quality than the replacements panels. ( I also ordered all my panels from Alfaholics). I believe that Alfa was using poor metal from the USSR.

[1750GT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by my72gtv Always keep in mind that the original metal is of much lower quality than the replacements panels. (I also ordered all my panels from Alfaholics). I believe that Alfa was using poor metal from the USSR.

[GTV-GR]

i'd go fiberglass all the way on that body

[alfa_corsa]

As I recall, the history books blame the later cars for having lower quality steel. I believe earlier cars (pre-70?) were not considered to have the stigma of Russian steel.

I'm not sure I can communicate how bad the blow through is. I squeeze the trigger and the wire hits the new panel and starts to bead instantly, and just as rapidly it burns a hole in the original panel. It's melts the original metal like butter. I've found that increasing the wirespeed a bit (just a bit over 10) helps to form the bead, one which more wire can hopefully build, but it's not always the case. I basically have to form the bead until it's big enough to start to bridge the gap and let the molten wire flow on to the other side. If I try to start the bead on the side with the existing panel, it blows through immediately.

I squeeze the trigger for less than a second and release it, and then squeeze it again, trying to build up the bead in small increments. So, yes, I'm using the "spot weld" method. = )

Ciao!
-tj in Los Gatos

[daveydog]

The problem you're describing sounds like you've got the current turned up too high. I should preface these comments by saying that by no means am I a professional welder, but I do have a few hours under my belt from chasing around the rust perforations in my '74.
And as you say, the later Alfas had the inferior Russkie steel. On my car when I remove some paint and primer in an area like the rocker panels for instance, I've found many, many small shallow pits of mostly surface rust that cover the freshly stipped sheet metal. I'll bet my whole car is covered in these "reverse zits". So far, as long as the paint is not chipped or scraped, it seems that the rusty zits are held in check by the absence of oxygen getting to them but in my car's restoration I've seen literally hundreds of them.
Having said all that about my car's cheap, left out in the rain, Russian sheet metal, I've never found I've had a problem with blow through like you're describing. I'm using a 110 volt Lincoln mig welder. When I got too much smoke and dirty welds owing to not being able to get behind the piece I was welding on to clean it properly, I switched the polarity of the work (ground) cable with the welding cable and used .023 flux core wire. It seems to weld better and cleaner on the pieces I welded and they are plenty!
But to me, a blow through indicates you're pulling the trigger for too long, or your amperage is too high for the thin metal.