A very modified GTV - Page 8

streetfame · #**106** (**permalink**) 02-24-2009, 12:47 AM

Daron,

I've been a fan of Max's gear for awhile now and I was wondering if your client has also got Max's Geometry Kit on order as well. For me running as low as I am, best believe I've got that kit on deck for final assembly!!

streetfame

**akitaman** · #**107** (**permalink**) 02-24-2009, 07:05 AM

Hey Streetfame! That beast your building needs the best doesn't it. Yes, the Geo kit is apart of it. Plus a few new bits I have not seen available to the public yet. I will take pictures of the stuff as it comes out of the boxes. Say what is the ETA of your monster. You really should get it to the Portland convention.

**davbert** · #**108** (**permalink**) 02-24-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanRedSpider

Not to mention two or three times more expensive.

The other issue I have with standard shocks is that they are valved for standard weight cars. That could be 20% heavier than your car which has a significant impact on spring & damping rates.

**Berlinista** · #**109** (**permalink**) 02-24-2009, 03:04 PM

well, my dampers are totally custom made for a 105 race car. Yet the adjusting is well known, the set up is proven, etc, and I have acces to a shock adjuster tester.
Mine are really very tough, with a big fat spindle, and I do not intend to drive the car that much. Yes it is a street car, but as hardcore as can be.
Other than that, I totally agree to three way damping being overkill, even on most race cars, in that the driver probably will not be able to give enough feedback to get a close , very good or let alone perfect setup. And yes, that includes me.
I got these dampers from a good friend, I built his 33 racecar (not a Tipo 33, but an ornery 33) into an IRS instead of a solid rear axle. Used bits from a 164, 156, 147, 33 and 75. Adjustable camber, caster, wheelbase and width.
But I'm hijacking this thread.
The Alfaholics setup would be my choice if I didn't have what I already got.
I could also never pay for my set new. Just lucky...

streetfame · #**110** (**permalink**) 02-25-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akitaman

Hey Streetfame! That beast your building needs the best doesn't it. Yes, the Geo kit is apart of it. Plus a few new bits I have not seen available to the public yet. I will take pictures of the stuff as it comes out of the boxes. Say what is the ETA of your monster. You really should get it to the Portland convention.

**akitaman** · #**111** (**permalink**) 02-25-2009, 08:14 PM

Berlinista- high jacking or not, you bring good thoughts to the thread, I like content that is relivent to the subject.

Street- you got to try and get that beast here. You did such a grand job and what better stage to showcase it. As for JJ, I haven't seen him for a while? I hope all is well.

What was this thread about again??? Oh ya, now I remember. Okay so the car was moved to the frame rack. Reason is simple. you peel this much skin off, you what to know that your square at all times. As we start to stitch weld and reinforce the chassis we want to be true as possible.

**ducatibruce** · #**112** (**permalink**) 02-27-2009, 04:02 AM

That is one very nude 105

**akitaman** · #**113** (**permalink**) 02-28-2009, 08:51 AM

Okay so I won't go into all the tricks but, the halo (or known as a crown) is welded in. I know some are wondering why this is relevant. Well, switching to riveted aluminum will create unwanted body flex. The car gets a great deal of its straight from the welded steel roof. If the skeleton is stiffened, then the aluminum will have far less ability to flex. More so, we are adding safety in an area that needs improvement when switched to aluminum (with out adding very much weight). If you ever took the roof off a GTV you would notice the frame is very, very flexible and it would be easy to collapse by hand. Now that the crown is in, one could stand on top of the frame and it will not collapse. The other reason we are doing this is because we are going to make the car as rigid as possible. The new, advanced suspension we are installing will perform far better, the stiffer we make the chassis.

We also took the outer rockers off too. We will be doing some stiffening in here and we want this area to get blasted along with the rest of the car. As far as rockers go, these are as clean as I have ever seen them.

It was a go thing we planed on this, because the inside of the outer rockers had some good surface rust starting.

**hagen111** · #**114** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akitaman

Hi Rik- yes they are single adjust but the valving was specially designed for the 105 cars only. There is a lot of data that was collected prior to the build of shocks. Unlike a Bilstein or koni's that are made to a general fit approach. Also, as the rest of the suspension gets installed, these are apart of a very, very nice over all package. Keep in mind this is a street car with lots of potential to do much more if and when the owner elects. Two and three way adjustable shocks are most likely overkill for a street car.

MRS- you are correct. Keep in mind when you get yours, they were built specially for your 105. I can't help but think that little fact is cool.

**akitaman** · #**115** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 02:42 PM

Hagen- are you on the Alfaholic units? If so tell us the story about what happened on the track compared to Koni's or what ever you were running before.

**hagen111** · #**116** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akitaman

Hagen- are you on the Alfaholic units? If so tell us the story about what happened on the track compared to Koni's or what ever you were running before.

**Berlinista** · #**117** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 03:21 PM

there's one thing, that I know not many people understand.

A PERFECT shock absorber is IMPERATIVE in a fast car. You would not believe how much money serious race teams, whether F1, WTCC, FIA GT, LMES or whatever, spend on dampers, and the time they spend testing, whether on a rack, bench or IRL.
You would NOT believe how much difference a good damper can make on track times. I was a team manager running modern racing cars in a European class. If we had one damper not up to the job, just one, not broken, but not up to scratch 100%, it would mean SECONDS on a track like Spa. That in a class where the first 10 cars would come in inside a second in a lap. One bad damper? Forget it!
lousy settings of all four? Forget it.
Like I said, IMPERATIVE..
And you really ,really can't compare a Koni, or even a Bilstein, with a modern adjustable race damper.
I have an older type of Intrax Squadra Bianca non adjustable race damper on my daily driver Berlina, and it is so smooth, so balanced, such a great car with these. And these are 10 year old technology. I had them bench tested and renovated, and they are far, far above a Bilstein.
I can only imagine how these Alfaholic dampers will behave.
Bilsteins up front are OK, the rears are far too stiff in rebound. A good combo for daily would be Bilsteins up front, with new Spicas out back.
A Koni red is junk, Koni yellow is better. You can use koni yellow in its close to hardest setting up front, with a koni red out back in its almost softest setting. But it will still be junk. 35 year old technology, made for 35 year old technology tires.
You can't believe how much damping came out of those old tires. On a modern low profile 15 inch, you NEED good dampers. Even a modern 185/70/14 tire behaves totally different than an old 165R14 . Tires and dampers work together.
So let's hear the story on these Alfaholic dampers!!
anyone out there?
Daron, your setup, it will need to be tested as for weight distribution in this car. It will probably behave different than any other 105. Probably run soft springs (on a tight chassis) . What can you adjust on these? Bump AND rebound with one knob, or just rebound? Go for very slow and soft rebound out back. Control bump with a soft spring first. Out front, well, that's gonna be a guess!

**akitaman** · #**118** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 03:52 PM

I lived about 35 to 40 miles south west of Nurburg back in the late 80's. I really miss that area. Going to the ring when ever I could, what a blast.

Berlinista- You really are on top of this stuff. That's great. And you are right, When I had my 74 911 RS it had a set of very expensive set of Bilsteins that I must say I did not enjoy. I may have made a mistake selling that car, but I don't miss the ride. My 67 sprint Veloce has Koni yellows and some newer type springs but, I'm not impressed there either. At some point in time in the future I will be selling off all my other cars (except the 67 GTV) and get my true dream car. A 308. When that happens the only thing I will be willing to do, is change the dampers and springs for a quality, advanced system.

**gprocket** · #**119** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 07:16 PM

Hey Daron:

I've got a dumb question: How do you attach the aluminum panels to the steel structure? And how do you isolate the dissimilar materials?

BTW, I received my shipment Saturday - everything was in good order and intact. But coming from the U.P. down here they got caught in a nasty snow storm and she was coated in salt!

**akitaman** · #**120** (**permalink**) 03-01-2009, 09:14 PM

Hey rich! You didn't get everything. They left one box. It has some real nice goodies in it. I will get it in the mail to you. As for the dissimilar metal issue, I will explain soon. There are two or maybe even a third approach we will be using. Funny enough, ford makes a product that is absolutely fantastic for this process.