Steering box differences / question - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Steering box differences / question

I broke the steering box on my 71 GTV and have been looking for a replacement.I've got a line on a box from a 74 spider. My understanding is that the Burman box has either a shaft or a u-joint connection. Are there and other differences between box's and is there any changes between Spider's and GTV and between 71 and 74?

Thanks for you help,
Jim Hart
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:07 AM
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There were no doubt many steeringboxes designed for the 105/115 series, and I have experience with only one datapoint: My '66 Sprint GT came with a non U-joint, non Burman box. I was able to replace it with a Burman box from a '76 spider, which bolted right in (I wanted the ball bearing action of the Burman).

My sense is that the U jointed boxes were only used on GTs and perhaps sedans - not on spiders. I am guessing that the length of the steering column changed a bit from model to model to accommodate the different wheelbases between the GT/sedan/spider, as well as different steering wheel designs (change in the "dish"). So, it is sort of a crapshoot what box/column will fit what car.

Does your '71 GTV's steering column have a U joint? I have owned both a '71 and '76 spider, and can tell you that the steering systems seemed identical through that era of the spider series. I know nothing about later GTVs.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 04-28-2009 at 08:10 AM.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:51 AM
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I sent in a note to papajam, who has all the parts books and I hope time to compare.

I'm sure the box itself (ZF or Burman) is the same, but I wonder about the length of the shaft? Most likely no u-joint on a 71 GTV. My impression from GTVs and Berlinas is the u-joint came into use no earlier than March/April 1973.

Andrew
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Jay,
My GTV has a Burman box without the u-joint, its still in the car so I can't measure the length, maybe I need to keep looking for a box from a GTV if the box from the Spider may have a different length shaft. I'm right down the road from San Juan, in Oceanside.

Thanks for your help,
Jim
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:53 AM
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Oops; misread my own spreadsheet; I show a Berlina built 10/72 with a u-joint.
Andrew
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Andrew.

Jim
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthart View Post
Jay,
My GTV has a Burman box without the u-joint, its still in the car so I can't measure the length, maybe I need to keep looking for a box from a GTV if the box from the Spider may have a different length shaft.
Jim:

Yea, that's what I'm not sure about. I had always "heard" that GTV's used longer columns than spiders, so I was surprised when I was able to install a spider box + column into my Sprint. Dunno if that would work in a '71 as easily as it did in my '66.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 04:44 AM
FWIW, I am rebuilding four Burman boxes right now. Two are from '69 GTVs, one from a '71 GTV and one from a '71 Berlina. They are all identical. I believe I have a shaft from a Spider - I will measure it today but I am almost certain they are the same.

EDIT: I need to stop drinking in the morning (or perhaps start drinking...) but I am totally wrong in comments above that they are the same. See Post #11

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Last edited by gprocket; 04-29-2009 at 08:15 AM.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
I sent in a note to papajam, who has all the parts books and I hope time to compare.
I will check the parts books this evening. I suspect though that all I'll find is different part numbers for different applications. Specific differences in the boxes, if any (save for the u-joint boxes), will not be listed.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 05:58 AM
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A little off this topic. Is there any main difference between a steering column between Giulias Super LHD and Giulias Super RHD, or just need to turn the one or the other by 18O degrees? Ignition switch/ headlights switch position is not a problem
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:13 AM
The steering box itself is the same but the shaft and the tube are substantially different. In the pictures below you will see the steering wheel end of (top to bottom) a '71 Berlina shaft, a '69 GTV shaft and '69 Spider shaft. Not only are the overall lengths different but the steering lock block too. Actually the Spider and GTV are the same but they differ from the Berlina. Here are the numbers:

Steering Shaft:
Berlina: OA Length = 24 13/16"
GTV: OA Length = 24 7/16"
Spider: OA Length = 24"

Name:  Shaft Comparisons.JPG
Views: 1170
Size:  141.0 KB


Similarly, the tubes are:
Berlina: OA Length = 33 3/16"
GTV: OA Length = 32 7/8""
Spider: OA Length = 32 3/8"

Name:  Tube Comparison.JPG
Views: 1165
Size:  155.7 KB


Finally, note that the worm gear end of the steering shaft is the same for all three - internally and externally, the burman boxes are identical and interchangeable.

Name:  Wrom gear Comparison.JPG
Views: 1241
Size:  171.3 KB

Name:  Burman gearbox exploded view.jpg
Views: 1186
Size:  29.0 KB

Hope this helps...

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Last edited by gprocket; 04-29-2009 at 08:16 AM.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Rich,
Looks like you know your way around a steering box! Sent you a PM.

Thanks,
Jim
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 02:52 PM
Misery loves company... I've had too many boxes explode on me not to have to figure out how to fix them...
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 06:47 PM
FWIW, OKP now offers a NEW Burman steering box (case only). I bit on the pricey side at $780 USD plus shipping from Germany but if you need one...

OKP Parts & Engineering GmbH, die Ersatzteil Spezialisten für klassische Alfa Romeo und Ferrari - Gehäuse für Lenkgetriebe Burman 1300-2000 Nord AR 50 005 008

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 10:31 PM
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Spider 'box in my GTV

Jim,

I've installed a later Spider non-ujoint Burman box in my '74 GTV, which originally came with a U-joint box.

The only problem I had was at the steering wheel end, where I had to fiddle with spacers to get the the slightly longer Spider column to work with the GTV cast aluminum column surround/support.
The GTV and Spider column supports are very different, and the ignition key/lock barrel are in different places and angles. You may have problems getting the GTV steering column lock part of the ingnition key barrrel to mesh with the cutout in the Spider column.

George

'74 GTV
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