Value of Non-Numbers Matching Spiders?

giuliaguy · #1 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 03:38 PM

Just curious what the going prices are for non-numbers matching (so not original engine) Giulietta and Giulia Spiders? I'm considering a Giulia Spider Veloce with a 1750cc Berlina engine in it. How much does not having the original 1600 Veloce engine, impact the value of the car?

GTD · #2 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 03:57 PM

My opinion:
These days, 40 to 50 years after production, the quality and integrity of the body and finish is more important for a daily driver than is the originality of the engine. Most of todays drivers would walk away from the original 1300's with 4 speeds - the're SLOW compared to what your driving today.

**tubut** · #3 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 04:39 PM

Alfa Romeo did not keep track of engine numbers during those years. Fusi's book lists numbers that supposedly are correct for a given production year, but his book contains many errors and cannot be trusted entirely.

If there is no original sales documentation that states the engine number, there is no way to prove whether an engine is original -- and such documentation rarely ever comes with the car.

Hence, in my experience, the engine number (of a correct type engine) seldom affects the value of the car, but condition of the engine certainly does.

Ruedi

giuliaguy · #4 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 05:30 PM

Hmm..ok. So this one has a 1750cc engine. I guess if I bought it, I'd be better off putting a 1600cc engine in it, eh? Anyone know what the Berlina engines were like in terms of reliability and power, compared to the 1600cc Veloce engine that would have been originally in the car?

Steve

**tubut** · #5 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 06:30 PM

Steve,

FYI: You posted in the Giulietta & Giulia (1954-65) forum. If your car is newer, you may get different answers in the Spider (1966-Up) forum for Duetto, Graduate, Spider and Spider Veloce.

So, it all depends on the manufacturing year of your car...

Ruedi

GTD · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 06:34 PM

Steve
A belated Welcome to the Alfabb!
The 1750 Berlina will move the car ok but if your a true Alfisti, your blood thrives with more power! A 1600 Veloce is only a step toward a 2000. They can all be made to fit but if your a newbie, run the car with the Berlina engine and enjoy it. Another engine can always be substituted.

If you want more response to your questions - add some pic's of the car your considering and the opinions will come.

**sprintgtc** · #7 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 10:16 PM

Steve,
I assume your looking at a '62 to 65 Giulia Spider Veloce. In top condition with a 101 series 1600, it is a valuable car- $25k plus. If the car you are looking at is $10k or less than the 1750 makes no difference to the price and general condition and rust are far more important. In between it is a judgement call. Although, a perfect Giulia Veloce with a 1750 will not be worth as much as one with the right 1600.

giuliaguy · #8 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 10:38 PM

Yes, I'm looking at a '65 Giulia Spider Veloce. Does have some "patched" areas in the floorpan. But the frame appears sound. Rockers were done, but the jack tubes were not installed, during the rocker replacement.

So approximately how much is the price difference between a perfect Giulia Veloce with a 1750cc vs. one with a correct 101 series 1600?

Steve

**tubut** · #9 (**permalink**) 11-13-2004, 11:57 PM

Sportscar Market Magazine says a 101 1600 Spider Veloce in near concours condition is worth $18k-$25k.

The highest prices go to unrestored (preserved) cars in museum quality (which may get double the price stated above), followed by correctly but not over-restored cars, followed by "american restorations" (essentially hot-rods, over-restored or inorrectly restored cars in good quality). For anything else, be prepared to allocate (and write off) a significant portion of the budget to "education".

Ruedi

SeekGTV · #10 (**permalink**) 11-14-2004, 08:41 AM

If you are talking strictly about collector value then I would say that the value of these cars could (and probably would) fetch a higher price with a stock engine. With that said, if I found a good value on one of these cars and it had a 1750 in it I personally would grab it. First of all, IMHO the 1750 is a great engine and it would surely make for some fun rides. Secondly, if the deal was good enough. One could pick up a 1600 (though they're getting harder to find) and restore the car to the original condition before it was time to sell.

Ethically speaking I would feel obigated to disclose that it wasn't 'THE' original engine; but, I think most buyers would be interested in the fact that it was period correct. No reason not to have your cake and eat it too!

GTD · #11 (**permalink**) 11-14-2004, 08:57 AM

Steve
You seem to be "sitting on the fence" - looking for reassurance that the car is worth the selling price.
More important than having the original engine is the body condition. You state that some repairs were done on the floors and the rockers replaced. I would be much more concerned with HOW that work was done vs what motor is in it.
Did you check the sills with a magnet when examining the car?
Perhaps it's worth a second look or paying for a professional accessment.
Relatively speaking- motors are a cheap swap - body work isn't.