101 series 1300 head tourque

[alfabits]

I have recently read conflicting information concerning the correct torque for the 101 series 1300 head. What is the consensus for the proper torque? I have seen published anywhere between 45 and 55 ft lbs.

George

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi George,
I have always used 50 Lbs. Cold, oiled and 55 Lbs. Hot, oiled. Hope this helps.
Gordon Raymond

[alfabits]

Thanks Gorgon. I had some concern that 50+ ft lbs might put too much strain on the 50 year old studs. I have some etched spots on my studs at the base of the block from corrosion. Do you think that should be cause for any concern?

Cheers,

George

[alfazagato]

If in doubt....replace the studs. You are right to have doubts about a 50 year old item. Recently I had 10 sets of studs made very reasonably and they were all taken up by London Alfisti immediately. I have one set left if you need dimensions. However, do check that the studs are still firmly anchored into the base of the block. I helicoiled mine so as to get a purchase in new metal. Some others made top hat sections to improve the grip in the parent metal.

[alfabits]

Those I spoke with at the time — the engine is built, installed, and running and isn't coming out — said leave them alone! So I did not attempt to have them removed. My question now is from anyone with experience with studs in condition like mine: what torque have they safety torqued them to?

Cheers,

George

[Gordon Raymond]

The problem is, George, that it's impossible to tell! Years ago (too many) I was torquing the last head nut on a REAL 1750 Zagato Grand sport. The engine was warm and everything had been brought up carefully and slowly. It was very late in the evening at a friends body shop in Chicago. Much beer had been consumed. Suddenly, S N A P ! That last stud broke. There was a very very long silence, then the owner of the car said," There is nothing so silent, in my experience, as the silence that followed that stud breaking." He was right. The next day I tore the whole engine apart again, and made a complete set of new studs. I would, however, do it the same way again as they did not look too bad.
I have seen really rotten, pitted ones on race engines hold up forever, while I have also had one really good one snap at a flaw in the steel.
If I was the owner of your lovely car, I would torque them to the correct 55 Ft./Lbs. warm, following Alfas text pattern in 2.5 Ft. Lb. increments. If one does snap, well, so be it. It is NOT the end of the world, they can be replaced with new, using the top hat inserts as Stuart suggests. I have done the same. As I get older, patience seems easier to come by, and the rewards more important. I would bet, they will hold up just fine, but, I have been wrong before. Have COURAGE! Gordon Raymond
P.S. The old ones can be a real bear to get out. I usually send this project out to an EDM shop (a good one) and the job comes back perfect, and worth the price.

[alfabits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond The problem is, George, that it's impossible to tell! Years ago (too many) I was torquing the last head nut on a REAL 1750 Zagato Grand sport. The engine was warm and everything had been brought up carefully and slowly. It was very late in the evening at a friends body shop in Chicago. Much beer had been consumed. Suddenly, S N A P ! That last stud broke. There was a very very long silence, then the owner of the car said," There is nothing so silent, in my experience, as the silence that followed that stud breaking." He was right. The next day I tore the whole engine apart again, and made a complete set of new studs. I would, however, do it the same way again as they did not look too bad. I have seen really rotten, pitted ones on race engines hold up forever, while I have also had one really good one snap at a flaw in the steel. If I was the owner of your lovely car, I would torque them to the correct 55 Ft./Lbs. warm, following Alfas text pattern in 2.5 Ft. Lb. increments. If one does snap, well, so be it. It is NOT the end of the world, they can be replaced with new, using the top hat inserts as Stuart suggests. I have done the same. As I get older, patience seems easier to come by, and the rewards more important. I would bet, they will hold up just fine, but, I have been wrong before. Have COURAGE! Gordon Raymond P.S. The old ones can be a real bear to get out. I usually send this project out to an EDM shop (a good one) and the job comes back perfect, and worth the price.

[Gordon Raymond]

Same thing George, I just bring them all up from 40 or 45, using the Alfa pattern by 2.5 lbs. one at a time. For example, all @ 45 Lbs, tighten each 2.5 more to 47.5 in sequence, then again, repeat the pattern to 50, and so on. This is usually done on initial installation, then run to warm and rechecked at 55. If they have already been torqued to 55 on initial installation, I just loosen slightly, when warm, and retighten to 55 in sequence. That should do it!
Best, Gordon Raymond

[Andrew]

And you do them in a (1) spiral or (2) criss-cross pattern, from the center out, as shown in the manuals. Much discussion some years ago on the Alfa Digest about which was better, but I think either would be acceptable. I have used both patterns, knocking wood at all times, on 1600-2000s without incident, though not on a 1300 since the late 1970s, when I'm sure we used criss-cross.

Andrew

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi Andrew,
I have always used the center out criss-cross pattern as I learned and memorized that one too many years ago. It's also like the Ferrari pattern on the V12's with four studs around the bores. I have never had a problem using this technique that could be blamed, even remotely, on the tightening pattern.
This is not to say that this is the only way it should be done. I've just never found a reason to try any other pattern.
Gordon Raymond

[Andrew]

I used the criss-cross for 25 years til Tom Sahines told me he used the only-slightly-different modified spiral. I take his word on mechanical stuff as gospel. Still, like you, never had a head gasket problem I could blame on the torque pattern.

Andrew